Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 08:53:11 01/15/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 15, 2004 at 10:26:37, Mike Hood wrote: >On January 15, 2004 at 07:56:05, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On January 15, 2004 at 07:41:22, Mike Hood wrote: >> >>>On January 15, 2004 at 04:17:34, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>> >>>>On January 14, 2004 at 18:57:50, Mike Hood wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 16:08:24, David H. McClain wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 15:07:39, Chris Taylor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Does S8 know how to use the 6 piece egtbs'? I could wait for it to arrive, nah; >>>>>>>please tell me! I have ordered the dam things and would like to know if I have >>>>>>>wasted my GBPs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Chris >>>>>> >>>>>>Chris, >>>>>> >>>>>>Being an amatuer here perhaps I am making an incorrect assumption about this. >>>>>> >>>>>>When I use my Shredder 7.04 the heavy hard drive activity appears to indicate it >>>>>>is accessing EGTBs tablebases when there are six pieces left on the board. I >>>>>>have assumed all along that this indicates that Shredder 7.04 is using a few of >>>>>>my 6 piece EGTBs or is at least looking for them. Shredder Classic GUI also >>>>>>states "6 piece EGTBs found" when changing hash table size for them. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hopefully one of our experts on this can either confirm or refute this. If this >>>>>>is in fact true then I see no reason why S 8 would not do the same. >>>>>> >>>>>>DHM >>>>> >>>>>The disk activity (and the "tb=" info in the engine window) when 6 pieces are on >>>>>the board doesn't necessarily mean that Shredder 7 is accessing a 6-piece >>>>>tablebase. It might only be accessing 5-piece tablebases in a search line which >>>>>results in the capture of one of the pieces. >>>>> >>>>>As far as I know, Shredder 7 accesses the single part 6-piece tablebases, ie the >>>>>tablebases that don't have a digit in the filename. The only programs that I >>>>>know that access the multi-part 6-piece tablebases are Hiarcs 9 and Crafty. I >>>>>assume that Shredder 8 can be added to this list. Ask me again next week. >>>> >>>>You can add Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 to that list. >>>> >>>>Michael >>> >>>Sorry, Michael, you're wrong. >> >>No, I am right. Both Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 use them in the search. >> >>New game >>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Fritz 7: >> >>1. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 3.Ta7 Te1 >>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 >>3. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Te5 2.d4 Td5 >>4. -+ (-#28): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 >>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Tg8 2.Ke1 >> >> >>New game >>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Fritz 8: >> >>1. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Kd7 >>2. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>3. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Tg8 2.Ke1 Tg1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 6.Kxd3 >>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 5.Kxd3 Tc1 6.Kd4 >> >> >>This is what you get if an engine does not use them: >> >>New game >>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Fritz 6: >> >>1. ± (1.38): 1.cxd3 Kd7 2.Tc5 Kd6 3.Ta5 Kc6 4.d4 Te4 5.d5+ Kb6 >>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>3. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 >>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 >> >>Michael > >Michael, these analyses don't prove anything. When you analyse parallel lines, >Fritz doesn't display the "tb=" info which is needed for proof. Also, in order >to carry out the test you need to remove all the 5-piece, 4-piece and 3-piece >tablebases before starting Fritz. I can guarantee you that the Fritz 7 and Fritz >8 engines (Fritz 8.0.0.23) don't access multi-part tablebases. However, Fritz 7 >and Fritz 8 do access single-part 6-piece tablebases. The tb info is no proof at all. It is also not needed for a proof. Just look at the evaluation. If Fritz 7 don't access multi-part tablebases please explain this: [D] 8/7k/6rq/8/8/7Q/6PP/6KR w - - 0 9 tbtest 8/7k/6rq/8/8/7Q/6PP/6KR w - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 7: 9.Dxh6+ Kg8 10.Dxg6+ Kh8 11.Df6+ Kh7 12.h4 Kg8 +- (16.41) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 6kN, tb=8 9.Dxh6+! +- (16.75) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 6kN, tb=10 9.Dxh6+! +- (17.06) Depth: 7/13 00:00:00 14kN, tb=14 9.Dxh6+! +- (17.06) Depth: 7/13 00:00:00 14kN, tb=14 9.Dxh6+! +- (#41) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 23kN, tb=21 9.Dxh6+! +- (#41) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 28kN, tb=27 And explain me why Fritz 7 blunders its Qeen in this position: [D] 7k/8/6Q1/8/8/8/6PP/6KR w - - 0 11 7k/8/6Q1/8/8/8/6PP/6KR w - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 7: 11.Dg8+ Kxg8 12.h4 Kg7 13.g4 +- (#12) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 31kN, tb=11 Michael
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