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Subject: Re: Correction it is Speelman who found a forced win after .1..Kc7

Author: Chesster Fritz

Date: 20:25:17 01/15/04

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On January 15, 2004 at 21:38:32, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On January 15, 2004 at 21:22:31, Brian Katz wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2004 at 17:34:08, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2004 at 13:40:23, Brian Katz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 12:19:48, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 12:02:55, Brian Katz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Correction it is Speelman who found a forced win after 1..Kc7
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I accidently mentioned Michael Steen rather than Speelman.
>>>>>>Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>After 49...Kc7 50.Ba6 (or any other Bishop move) 50...Kd6= and if instead 50.Ka6
>>>>>Bg1=. Read what I wrote carefully and you will see that the draw is quite
>>>>>trivial.
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, there is no way White can force his way to the h6 pawn with his King as
>>>>>I've indicated elsewhere in this thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How about in this line?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1...Kc7 2.Ba6 Be1
>>>
>>>
>>>As I indicated the move Kd6 here is drawing.
>>>
>>>
>>>>3.c5 Bd2 4.Kc4 Kc6 5.Bb5+ Kc7 6.Kd5 Bb4 7c6 Kd8 8.Bf1 Kc7
>>>>9.Bg2 Bc3 10.Ke6 Bb4 11.Kf7 Be1 12.Kg6 Kd6 13.Kxh5 Bh4 14.Kg6 Kc7 15.Kf5 Kd6
>>>>16.Be4 Kc7 17.Kd6 Bf2 18.Kd5 Bg3 19.Kc5 Be1 20.Kb5 Bd2 21.h4 gxh4 22.Bg2 Bf4
>>>>(22...Kc8 23.Kb6 Bf4 24.Kxa5...) 23.Kxa5 h3 24.Be4 h2 25.Kb5 Be3 26.a5 Kd6 27.a6
>>>>Kc7 28.g5! Bd4 29.g6...and Black is busted.
>>>>
>>>>BUT perhaps you are right.
>>>>Black allows the a-pawn to be captured then the only way white can make progress
>>>>is to give back one of the Queenside pawns and that would be a forced DRAW.
>>>>
>>>>Great position for analysis!!!
>>>>
>>>>Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>This is _not_ a great position for analysis. There is little need to be doing
>>>much analysis at all. You need to pay attention to what I wrote
>>>(http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?342545). Black has a fortress
>>>position against which White cannot produce anything resembling progress. The
>>>position is a stone cold draw.
>>
>>Of course this is a great position for analysis. Peter Svidler even erred in his
>>assessment of this position.
>>For others who are not familiar with fortresses or who are not rated that
>>high.......
>>  This is wonderful position to look at.
>>Who else feels as I do?
>>Brian
>
>
>Of course, the position is instructive. What I meant by "This is _not_ a great
>position for analysis," I meant specifically that it was not a position for
>calculating. If you are calculating more than a little bit, then you are
>misunderstanding the position. The position is best solved by thinking
>schematically with little calculation.
>
>The fact that so many titled players and even a quite strong player like Svidler
>misunderstands this position is indicative that endgame technique is not nearly
>as high as the layperson imagines it to be among the pros. Middle game play and
>opening knowledge evidently has much greater practical value.

That's a load of crap. Capablanca is turning in his grave.

I could post positions, from ChessBase if you hadn't seen them and concluded
they were draws, when in fact they are an exception to common theory.

Many *Drawish* positions aren't! To solve them takes a great deal of analysis,
and technique.




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