Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 07:15:23 01/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 17, 2004 at 08:36:41, Mike Hood wrote: >On January 15, 2004 at 11:53:11, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On January 15, 2004 at 10:26:37, Mike Hood wrote: >> >>>On January 15, 2004 at 07:56:05, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>> >>>>On January 15, 2004 at 07:41:22, Mike Hood wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 04:17:34, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 18:57:50, Mike Hood wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 16:08:24, David H. McClain wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 15:07:39, Chris Taylor wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Does S8 know how to use the 6 piece egtbs'? I could wait for it to arrive, nah; >>>>>>>>>please tell me! I have ordered the dam things and would like to know if I have >>>>>>>>>wasted my GBPs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Chris, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Being an amatuer here perhaps I am making an incorrect assumption about this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>When I use my Shredder 7.04 the heavy hard drive activity appears to indicate it >>>>>>>>is accessing EGTBs tablebases when there are six pieces left on the board. I >>>>>>>>have assumed all along that this indicates that Shredder 7.04 is using a few of >>>>>>>>my 6 piece EGTBs or is at least looking for them. Shredder Classic GUI also >>>>>>>>states "6 piece EGTBs found" when changing hash table size for them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hopefully one of our experts on this can either confirm or refute this. If this >>>>>>>>is in fact true then I see no reason why S 8 would not do the same. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>DHM >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The disk activity (and the "tb=" info in the engine window) when 6 pieces are on >>>>>>>the board doesn't necessarily mean that Shredder 7 is accessing a 6-piece >>>>>>>tablebase. It might only be accessing 5-piece tablebases in a search line which >>>>>>>results in the capture of one of the pieces. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>As far as I know, Shredder 7 accesses the single part 6-piece tablebases, ie the >>>>>>>tablebases that don't have a digit in the filename. The only programs that I >>>>>>>know that access the multi-part 6-piece tablebases are Hiarcs 9 and Crafty. I >>>>>>>assume that Shredder 8 can be added to this list. Ask me again next week. >>>>>> >>>>>>You can add Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 to that list. >>>>>> >>>>>>Michael >>>>> >>>>>Sorry, Michael, you're wrong. >>>> >>>>No, I am right. Both Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 use them in the search. >>>> >>>>New game >>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Fritz 7: >>>> >>>>1. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 3.Ta7 Te1 >>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 >>>>3. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Te5 2.d4 Td5 >>>>4. -+ (-#28): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 >>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Tg8 2.Ke1 >>>> >>>> >>>>New game >>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Fritz 8: >>>> >>>>1. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Kd7 >>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>3. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Tg8 2.Ke1 Tg1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 6.Kxd3 >>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 5.Kxd3 Tc1 6.Kd4 >>>> >>>> >>>>This is what you get if an engine does not use them: >>>> >>>>New game >>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Fritz 6: >>>> >>>>1. ± (1.38): 1.cxd3 Kd7 2.Tc5 Kd6 3.Ta5 Kc6 4.d4 Te4 5.d5+ Kb6 >>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>3. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 >>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 >>>> >>>>Michael >>> >>>Michael, these analyses don't prove anything. When you analyse parallel lines, >>>Fritz doesn't display the "tb=" info which is needed for proof. Also, in order >>>to carry out the test you need to remove all the 5-piece, 4-piece and 3-piece >>>tablebases before starting Fritz. I can guarantee you that the Fritz 7 and Fritz >>>8 engines (Fritz 8.0.0.23) don't access multi-part tablebases. However, Fritz 7 >>>and Fritz 8 do access single-part 6-piece tablebases. >> >>The tb info is no proof at all. It is also not needed for a proof. > >The "tb=" info is the only valid proof for tests like this, providing that the >5-piece and smaller tablebases have been removed and you are carrying out your >tests using ONLY the 6-piece tablebases. The evaluation is secondary, because it >might just be a good result from a good engine. Think about that again. You won't find any program that can see a mate in 40 here. I looked at your test results, >but I still have to ask: did you remove all the 3-, 4- and 5-piece tablebases >before carrying out the tests. No >I don't need the proof for myself, because I already have Fritz 7 and Fritz 8, >and I know they don't use multi-part 6-piece tablebases. I'm trying to prove it >to you. Your Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 engines do not use them. OK Does that mean that my Fritz 8 can't use them? No IIRC you are able to understand German text: http://f23.parsimony.net/forum50826/messages/86778.htm http://www.chessbase.com/shopd/product.asp?pid=221 Michael
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