Author: Mike Hood
Date: 08:29:43 01/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 17, 2004 at 10:15:23, Drexel,Michael wrote: >On January 17, 2004 at 08:36:41, Mike Hood wrote: > >>On January 15, 2004 at 11:53:11, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On January 15, 2004 at 10:26:37, Mike Hood wrote: >>> >>>>On January 15, 2004 at 07:56:05, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 07:41:22, Mike Hood wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 04:17:34, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 18:57:50, Mike Hood wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 16:08:24, David H. McClain wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On January 14, 2004 at 15:07:39, Chris Taylor wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Does S8 know how to use the 6 piece egtbs'? I could wait for it to arrive, nah; >>>>>>>>>>please tell me! I have ordered the dam things and would like to know if I have >>>>>>>>>>wasted my GBPs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Chris, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Being an amatuer here perhaps I am making an incorrect assumption about this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>When I use my Shredder 7.04 the heavy hard drive activity appears to indicate it >>>>>>>>>is accessing EGTBs tablebases when there are six pieces left on the board. I >>>>>>>>>have assumed all along that this indicates that Shredder 7.04 is using a few of >>>>>>>>>my 6 piece EGTBs or is at least looking for them. Shredder Classic GUI also >>>>>>>>>states "6 piece EGTBs found" when changing hash table size for them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hopefully one of our experts on this can either confirm or refute this. If this >>>>>>>>>is in fact true then I see no reason why S 8 would not do the same. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>DHM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The disk activity (and the "tb=" info in the engine window) when 6 pieces are on >>>>>>>>the board doesn't necessarily mean that Shredder 7 is accessing a 6-piece >>>>>>>>tablebase. It might only be accessing 5-piece tablebases in a search line which >>>>>>>>results in the capture of one of the pieces. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>As far as I know, Shredder 7 accesses the single part 6-piece tablebases, ie the >>>>>>>>tablebases that don't have a digit in the filename. The only programs that I >>>>>>>>know that access the multi-part 6-piece tablebases are Hiarcs 9 and Crafty. I >>>>>>>>assume that Shredder 8 can be added to this list. Ask me again next week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You can add Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 to that list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Michael >>>>>> >>>>>>Sorry, Michael, you're wrong. >>>>> >>>>>No, I am right. Both Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 use them in the search. >>>>> >>>>>New game >>>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Analysis by Fritz 7: >>>>> >>>>>1. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 3.Ta7 Te1 >>>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 Te2 >>>>>3. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Te5 2.d4 Td5 >>>>>4. -+ (-#28): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 >>>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Tg8 2.Ke1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>New game >>>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Analysis by Fritz 8: >>>>> >>>>>1. = (0.00): 1.cxd3 Kd7 >>>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>>3. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Tg8 2.Ke1 Tg1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 6.Kxd3 >>>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 5.Kxd3 Tc1 6.Kd4 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>This is what you get if an engine does not use them: >>>>> >>>>>New game >>>>>3kr3/8/8/8/8/3p4/2PP4/2RK4 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Analysis by Fritz 6: >>>>> >>>>>1. ± (1.38): 1.cxd3 Kd7 2.Tc5 Kd6 3.Ta5 Kc6 4.d4 Te4 5.d5+ Kb6 >>>>>2. = (0.00): 1.Tb1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>>3. = (0.00): 1.Ta1 dxc2+ 2.Kxc2 >>>>>4. -+ (-#27): 1.c3 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Te1+ 5.Kd4 Te2 >>>>>5. -+ (-#21): 1.c4 Th8 2.Ke1 Th1+ 3.Kf2 Txc1 4.Ke3 Txc4 >>>>> >>>>>Michael >>>> >>>>Michael, these analyses don't prove anything. When you analyse parallel lines, >>>>Fritz doesn't display the "tb=" info which is needed for proof. Also, in order >>>>to carry out the test you need to remove all the 5-piece, 4-piece and 3-piece >>>>tablebases before starting Fritz. I can guarantee you that the Fritz 7 and Fritz >>>>8 engines (Fritz 8.0.0.23) don't access multi-part tablebases. However, Fritz 7 >>>>and Fritz 8 do access single-part 6-piece tablebases. >>> >>>The tb info is no proof at all. It is also not needed for a proof. >> >>The "tb=" info is the only valid proof for tests like this, providing that the >>5-piece and smaller tablebases have been removed and you are carrying out your >>tests using ONLY the 6-piece tablebases. The evaluation is secondary, because it >>might just be a good result from a good engine. > >Think about that again. You won't find any program that can see a mate in 40 >here. > >I looked at your test results, >>but I still have to ask: did you remove all the 3-, 4- and 5-piece tablebases >>before carrying out the tests. > >No > >>I don't need the proof for myself, because I already have Fritz 7 and Fritz 8, >>and I know they don't use multi-part 6-piece tablebases. I'm trying to prove it >>to you. > >Your Fritz 7 and Fritz 8 engines do not use them. OK >Does that mean that my Fritz 8 can't use them? No > >IIRC you are able to understand German text: > >http://f23.parsimony.net/forum50826/messages/86778.htm > >http://www.chessbase.com/shopd/product.asp?pid=221 > >Michael Right, Michael... I know that the Fritz 8 upgrade packaged with the DVD Endgame Turbo allows access to the multi-part 6-piece tablebases. I haven't bought this product, and I don't intend to, because I assume multi-part tablebase access will be included with Shredder 8, which (I hope!) will arrive in the mail very soon. Fritz 7 has always supported access to single part 6-piece tablebases.
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