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Subject: Re: Chess Vendor Posting on CCC Surreptitiously

Author: José Carlos

Date: 16:49:26 01/17/04

Go up one level in this thread


On January 17, 2004 at 13:37:00, margolies,marc wrote:

>your post is unfair and unequal,Jose.

  I know my english is not very good, so I'll believe your confusion comes from
my bad english.

>This board is designed to meet the needs of programmers and software users.

  Computer Chess Club. That's the name. I don't see how it comes down to
"programmers and software users club".

>This board is **not** designed to meet the advertising needs of competing
>vendors, who can afford their own boards.

  Ok, the only thing I said about that is that _I_ don't have a problem with
ads. I believe it's my right to not have problems with whatever I want. That
doesn't mean I want ads here, I just don't have a problem with them.

>The two groups should not be treated equally here. They should be treated
>equally in Law.

  I don't follow your logic here. Do you mean that if I write a program I can
advertise it but others can't? Only I, the programmer?

>Posting here is a social contract to obey the rules here.

  Sorry, I haven't signed a contract at all, as far as I recall.

>It is not a fundamental human rights issue.

  Do you mean that fundamental human rights can be violated under certain
contractual circumstances?

>And targeting Frank Quisinsky to suffer flack over this commercial
>imbroglio is an unfair sideshow. It has nothing to do with equality whatsoever!

  Even if my english is not good, I believe this sentence is clear enough:

  "This is just a question, no accusation or complaint whatsoever:"

>Is it your ambition to advertise here then?

  Have I ever do such? You can search the archives, and should do it to answer
your question.

>Are you setting Frank up as a straw man to give yourself some special
>future license?

  "This is just a question, no accusation or complaint whatsoever:"

>You might find my question unfair, but if you can publicly raise the issue of
>Frank, who are you really talking about and why aren't you fair game too?

  This other paragraph is, I believe, also very clear:

>>  Thanks for your explanation. The advertisment part of the charter is by far
>>the less clear to me. I've been seeing ads here since I came for the
>>first time (in 1999 I think) and I still can't clearly differenciate
>>which are against the charter and which aren't. Hence my question.

  So in summary: I don't understand the criteria that apply for advertisment
issues. Then I ask. I bring Frank as an example. It is crystal clear that he
does advertisment here, so the example is valid. I say very clearly that I'm not
complaining, just asking. It's my right to ask question about the charte here, I
believe.
  I hope everything is clear now for you.

  José C.


>On January 17, 2004 at 04:08:59, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On January 16, 2004 at 22:10:15, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>On January 16, 2004 at 12:16:56, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2004 at 21:35:59, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>To All CCC Memebers:
>>>>>
>>>>>We toasted Swartz on January 7th and Caissa signed on the very next day.
>>>>>
>>>>>Even though the IPs are different, the HTTP_USER_AGENT for both of them is
>>>>>identical: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; YComp 5.0.2.6)
>>>>>
>>>>>For the entire year there were only 6 that were identical to that of the 1000's
>>>>>of signups.
>>>>>
>>>>>The email address that Caissa uses directs one to a site that is sponsored by
>>>>>Chess Central and only Chess Central sells product there.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gary Swartz posted 9 times before he was toasted:
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=315282
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=333630
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=333733
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=333777
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=335464
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=340382
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=340455
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=340497
>>>>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=340597
>>>>>
>>>>>All but one was a flagrant advertisement for either Chess Central or Chess
>>>>>Exchange.
>>>>>
>>>>>Swartz had as his username and city:
>>>>>User name: ChessMagic
>>>>>City: San Antonio TX
>>>>>
>>>>>Caissa has as his username and city:
>>>>>User name: ChessBrain
>>>>>City: Texas
>>>>>
>>>>>Please boycott Chess Central and Chess Exchange for violating and totally
>>>>>disrespecting our Charter.
>>>>>
>>>>>Please report any repeated posts promoting Chess Central or Chess Exchange.
>>>>>Anyone posting a post that promotes Chess Central or Chess Exchange will
>>>>>permanently banned without any warning.  This organization is willfully
>>>>>violating our charter for their  own financial gain.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank You.
>>>>>
>>>>>Michael Byrne
>>>>
>>>>  This is just a question, no accusation or complaint whatsoever: isn't Frank
>>>>Quisinsky's posts selling Ruffian also a violation of the charter?
>>>>
>>>>  José C.
>>>
>>>I guess it might be - I never thought about it - nobody has ever complained
>>>about it.  We do not exactly look for problems where none exist and nobody
>>>complains.  As you state, you ae not making an accusation or complaint whatsover
>>>either.  The proper way to complain is to contact  the CCC modetaotrs via an
>>>email - not to post acomplaint about someone else's post. We may not read it.
>>>We do not lurk here 24 hours  a day looking for posts to delete and I certainly
>>>do not read every post.
>>>
>>>There is also difference between the two posts.   Posts from programmers about
>>>new release of their program can be construed as an informative if done properly
>>>and not repetitvely.  Posts from a vendor acting as if he someeone else ,
>>>repeated over a period of time with essentialy the same message  and who ignores
>>>requests to stop is totally different.  I am sure if we asked Frank to stop , he
>>>would never make another post here again, period - is that what you want?
>>
>>  Thanks for your explanation. The advertisment part of the charter is by far
>>the less clear to me. I've been seeing ads here since I came for the first time
>>(in 1999 I think) and I still can't clearly differenciate which are against the
>>charter and which aren't. Hence my question.
>>  And to your question, no I don't want to prevent Frank to do advertisments
>>here. Actually I don't have much of a problem with ads. But I'd like that all
>>people are treated equally to be fair to everyone.
>>
>>  José C.



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