Author: Uri Blass
Date: 03:42:50 01/18/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 18, 2004 at 05:29:59, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On January 18, 2004 at 04:44:59, martin fierz wrote: > >>On January 18, 2004 at 02:27:35, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On January 18, 2004 at 01:25:52, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>> >>>>[D]8/8/5pk1/5b2/7K/3R3p/7P/8 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>How on earth should White win this position? I see no way >>>to do this. Some reasons for my assumption: >>> >>>1.) >>>If White at some time takes the h3-pawn with the rook, >>>the pawn ending is a draw. >>> >>>2) >>>The only try would be to win Black's f6-pawn. But >>>this can't be done. >>> >>>3) >>>But even in the case that due to some Zugzwang >>>White wins the f6-pawn, the position still looks >>>drawn. >>> >>>Any counter arguments. >>>Kurt >> >>hi kurt, uri, >> >>this is an interesting position. the first thing to note are a couple of >>theroetically known endgames: >> >>-> if white succeeds in winning both black pawns, he wins >[D]7k/R7/7P/6K1/8/3b4/8/8 w - - 0 1 >> >>-> however, if he is careless then, he only draws >>[D]7k/R7/7P/6K1/8/3b4/8/8 w - - 0 1 >> >>these two endings are just interesting so i posted them anyway. but they are >>irrelevant. the relevant ending is if white wins the f-pawn: >> >[D]8/8/6k1/5b2/7K/3R3p/7P/8 w - - 0 1 >>this is supposed to be a win in endgame theory AFAIK, and that is the >>counter-argument to kurt's argument #3 - if white succeeds in winning f6, he >>will in fact win the game. in addition, the wins of this type of endgame usually >>are very very deep, so even searching this position to 30 or 40 ply might not be >>enough to see the win of the h-pawn. >> >>if somebody has the KRPKBP tablebase and time to spend he could run the original >>position over night and se what happens... >> >>cheers >> martin > > Hi Martin > Indeed a very interesting position in which the main > question remains: can White succeed in winning Black's > f6-pawn? > Kurt It seems that white can do it(or to win the h3 pawn) Otherwise I see no explanation for Yace increase in the score. Uri
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