Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 07:44:24 01/19/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 19, 2004 at 10:14:43, Mark Young wrote:
>On January 19, 2004 at 09:54:57, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On January 19, 2004 at 09:02:05, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On January 19, 2004 at 04:07:06, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A played a match of 22 games between Shredder 8 and Fritz 5.32 with the
>>>>following results
>>>>
>>>> Time control: 15' Ponder=off Powerbook2004 with maximun variety of play,
>>>>learn=off, Hash=64 mb
>>>>
>>>> I know these are too little games to extract any conclusion, but i think this
>>>>must have some meaning.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>PABLO-ILFE1CXZX, Blitz:15' 0
>>>>
>>>> 1234567890123456789012
>>>>1 Shredder 8 11111½½1111½111½1111½1 19.5/22 +17/-0/=5 88.64% +356 elo dif
>>>>2 Fritz 5.32 00000½½0000½000½0000½0 2.5/22 +0/-17/=5 11.36%
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, i was feeling some curiosity about the result of a match like this would
>>>>be and that's why i did it. I remember back in 1999 Fritz 5.32 played in
>>>>Hannover 2 games against Kasparov with 15' each, and tie the match with 2 draws.
>>>>
>>>> It is not difficult to guess that, given the above result, Shredder 8 is much
>>>>stronger than Kasparov himself at 15' blitz. If Shredder 8 is able to score 99%
>>>>against most of humans, i don't think it finds much trouble getting 80%, maybe
>>>>more against a supergm (+2700 fide elo) at this time control. What do you think
>>>>about this?
>>>>
>>>> And of course, here are the games
>>>
>>>Computer programs are stronger then any human at fast time controls. We have
>>>many results on ICC to back up this claim. I have seen very strong GM Players
>>>lose 10 or 20 or more games in a row to programs like Shredder, Hiarcs,
>>>Crafty... It is rare to see a draw, and even more so to see the human win. I
>>>can't remember seeing a GM win on ICC, when I have been watching in a very long
>>>time.
>>
>>Have those GM someting to lose if they play computers on ICC?
>>Is that really serious?
>>
>>I don't think so.
>
>This is not a valid argument. Many play on ICC and I don't know of one who plays
>to lose.
Obviusly they play there for amusement.
Most of them play like they would play against a strong human GM and not against
a computer program.
>
>This argument has been seen before to justify computers only winning games
>because the GM's had nothing to play for money wise. This argument has been show
>to be false, GM's still don't win matches playing computers even when they are
>"really serious".
Some could win matches against computers.
I also watched a few of these games (trial account) half a year ago. I decided
against joining ICC cause you waste a lot of time there without any real chance
to improve your own chess.
I saved two games Kamsky-Shredder.
That's how to play a Computer in Blitz:
[Event "ICC 5 3"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2003.07.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Udav"]
[Black "RebelRex"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D02"]
[WhiteElo "3220"]
[BlackElo "3391"]
[PlyCount "133"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bf4 Nf6 4. e3 c5 5. c3 Nc6 6. Nbd2 Qb6 7. Qb3 Qxb3 8.
axb3 Bd7 9. dxc5 Bxc5 10. b4 Bb6 11. h3 O-O 12. Be2 a6 13. O-O Rac8 14. Rfd1
Na7 15. Nd4 Rfe8 16. N2f3 Bxd4 17. exd4 Bb5 18. Re1 Bxe2 19. Rxe2 Nc6 20. Ne1
h6 21. Nd3 Nd7 22. g4 g5 23. Bg3 Ne7 24. f3 Kg7 25. h4 Ng6 26. h5 Ne7 27. Kg2
Nc6 28. Kh3 Rg8 29. Rf1 b6 30. Bd6 Nf6 31. Bh2 Nd7 32. Bd6 Nf6 33. Ra1 a5 34.
b5 Na7 35. Be5 Nxb5 36. f4 Nxc3 37. bxc3 Rxc3 38. Rd2 gxf4 39. Rf1 Kh7 40. Bxf6
b5 41. Rxf4 Ra8 42. Kh4 Ra7 43. Be5 Ra3 44. Nc5 Ra1 45. Rdf2 Rh1+ 46. Kg3 Kg8
47. Rf6 Rg1+ 48. Kh3 Rh1+ 49. Kg2 Re1 50. Nd3 Re4 51. Rxh6 Rxg4+ 52. Kh3 f6 53.
Bxf6 Rgg7 54. Bxg7 Kxg7 55. Rxe6 Kh7 56. Ne5 Rg7 57. h6 Rb7 58. Rf7+ Rxf7 59.
Nxf7 Kg8 60. Ng5 Kf8 61. Re5 a4 62. Rxd5 b4 63. Rb5 Ke7 64. Rxb4 Kf6 65. Kg4
Ke7 66. Kf5 a3 67. Ra4 {Black resigns} 1-0
[Event "ICC 5 3"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2003.07.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Udav"]
[Black "RebelRex"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D02"]
[WhiteElo "3202"]
[BlackElo "3409"]
[PlyCount "299"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bf5 4. e3 e6 5. Nbd2 Bd6 6. Bxd6 Qxd6 7. c4 O-O 8.
Qb3 b6 9. Be2 c5 10. Qa3 Bg4 11. O-O Nbd7 12. Rfd1 Rfe8 13. h3 Bh5 14. Rac1
Rac8 15. cxd5 exd5 16. dxc5 bxc5 17. Nd4 Qb6 18. N4f3 Rb8 19. b3 Rbd8 20. Re1
Bg6 21. Nh4 Be4 22. Nxe4 Nxe4 23. Nf3 Ndf6 24. Bd3 a5 25. Rc2 Qb4 26. Qc1 a4
27. Bxe4 Nxe4 28. Nd2 axb3 29. axb3 Nd6 30. Rd1 Rc8 31. Qb2 Qb7 32. Rdc1 Qb6
33. Rd1 Nb5 34. Nf3 Rcd8 35. Qc1 d4 36. Rxc5 Nc3 37. Rxc3 dxc3 38. Rxd8 Rxd8
39. Qxc3 Rd1+ 40. Kh2 Qb8+ 41. Qe5 Qxe5+ 42. Nxe5 Rd2 43. Kg3 Rb2 44. h4 Rxb3
45. Nf3 Rb2 46. Nd4 h5 47. Kf3 g6 48. Ne2 Kf8 49. Nf4 Ke7 50. Nh3 Kd6 51. Nf4
Rc2 52. g3 Ra2 53. Nh3 Ke5 54. Nf4 Rd2 55. Nh3 Rd3 56. Nf4 Rd2 57. Nh3 Rd6 58.
Nf4 Rd1 59. Nh3 Rd3 60. Ke2 Rc3 61. Kf3 Rb3 62. Nf4 Kf5 63. Ne2 Rd3 64. Nd4+
Ke5 65. Ne2 Ra3 66. Nf4 Kf5 67. Nh3 Rb3 68. Nf4 Ra3 69. Nh3 Ra4 70. Nf4 Rb4 71.
Nh3 Ra4 72. Nf4 Rb4 73. Nh3 Rb3 74. Nf4 Rc3 75. Nh3 Ra3 76. Nf4 Ra4 77. Nh3 Ke5
78. Nf4 Kf5 79. Nh3 Rb4 80. Nf4 Rb3 81. Nh3 Ke5 82. Nf4 Rb1 83. Nh3 Ra1 84. Nf4
Rd1 85. Ke2 Ra1 86. Kf3 Rb1 87. Nh3 Rb2 88. Nf4 Kd6 89. Nh3 Kd5 90. Nf4+ Kd6
91. Nh3 Ra2 92. Nf4 Rc2 93. Nh3 Rb2 94. Nf4 Rc2 95. Nh3 Ra2 96. Nf4 Ra1 97. Ke2
Ra3 98. Kf3 Ke5 99. Nh3 f5 100. Nf4 Kf6 101. Nd5+ Ke5 102. Nf4 Kf6 103. Nh3 Ra4
104. Kg2 Ra6 105. Kf3 Ra5 106. Kg2 Ra6 107. Kf3 Ra4 108. Kg2 Ke7 109. Kf3 Ke6
110. Kg2 Ra2 111. Kf3 Ke5 112. Nf4 Kf6 113. Nh3 Ke5 114. Nf4 Kf6 115. Nd5+ Kf7
116. Nf4 Rc2 117. Nh3 Kf6 118. Kg2 Rc6 119. Kf3 Ra6 120. Kg2 Ra4 121. Ng5 Rc4
122. Kf3 Rc2 123. Kg2 Rd2 124. Kf3 Rb2 125. Kg2 Rc2 126. Kf3 Ra2 127. Nh3 Ra6
128. Ng5 Ra4 129. Nh3 Rc4 130. Ng5 Rc2 131. Nh3 Rc5 132. Kg2 Rc2 133. Kf3 Rb2
134. Kg2 Rb1 135. Kf3 Rc1 136. Kg2 Ra1 137. Kf3 Rb1 138. Kg2 Rb8 139. Kf3 Rb4
140. Kg2 Rb1 141. Kf3 Rb2 142. Kg2 Rb7 143. Kf3 Rb5 144. Kg2 Ke6 145. Kf3 Kf7
146. Nf4 Rb6 147. Kg2 Rb1 148. Kf3 Rb8 149. Kg2 Rb2 150. Kf3 {
Game drawn by the 50 move rule} 1/2-1/2
Unfortunately it is boring.
Michael
>
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>>This is not to hard to understand. Super GM's have only been able to draw their
>>>matches to programs at standard time controls. ( Fritz, Junior, Hiarcs)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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