Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Are 6-piece EGTB's worth it?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 09:03:35 01/22/04

Go up one level in this thread


On January 21, 2004 at 17:10:20, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On January 21, 2004 at 17:02:30, Mike Hood wrote:
>
>>Here's a small example of "perfect play" using the KRPP-KR tablebase. It's not
>>the only path that leads to mate, there are a few possible branches along the
>>way, but there are no shorter paths. How many engines playing black without
>>6-piece EGTBs could get a win against an engine playing white with 6-piece
>>EGTBs? Not many, if any. Take a look
>>
>>[D] 3R4/6k1/8/6p1/7p/2r5/7K/8 b - - 0 63
>>
>>63...Kg6 64. Rh8 Kf5
>>65. Rf8+ Kg4 66. Rd8 Rc2+ 67. Kg1 h3 68. Rd4+ Kg3 69. Rd3+ Kh4 70. Rd8 g4 71.
>>Rd4 Kg3 72. Rd3+ Kf4 73. Rd4+ Kf3 74. Rd3+ Ke4 75. Rd8 g3 76. Re8+ Kf4 77. Rf8+
>>Ke5 78. Re8+ Kf6 79. Re1 Kg5 80. Rd1 Rf2 81. Rd5+ Kg4 82. Rd4+ Rf4 83. Rd2 h2+
>>84. Kg2 Rf2+ 85. Rxf2 gxf2 86. Kxf2 h1=Q 87. Ke3 Qd5 88. Ke2 Kf4 89. Kf1 Qa2
>>90. Ke1 Ke3 91. Kd1 Qb1#
>
>That is a basic endgame. I would win that in my sleep.
>
>Michael

Sure, i drew KRPP KR with the KR side 2 times in 2002 in a 120 0 game in my
club. One time opponent had pawns on e2,f3 the other time there were pawns on f
and g. So connected passers. Not f + h, they all know that too well to be a
draw.

One opponent has a rating of 2220 (Robert Beekman) the other is FM (Pieter
Nieuwenhuis).

Neither of them was in time trouble...

KRPP KR is a very useful EGTB.

Of course guys like Haworth & co are too bad chessplayers to select interesting
positions from such EGTBs, can't blame them. The conclusion is trivial however
that chessprograms do a better job there with connected passers than humans,
because the way to draw it is like a 10 ply combination which even in blitz
happens. However the problems computers have is with for example f + h pawns.

I'm sure most programs say it's +3.0 or so but in reality it's a simple draw.

The interesting positions are not the 6 men themselves, but exchanging *into*
them.

That's why win/draw/loss egtbs are very useful for those who do not have 2
terabyte of storage space for the 6 men but only a few gigabyte.






This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.