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Subject: Re: What's going on here?

Author: Micheal Cummings

Date: 04:15:16 12/03/98

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On December 03, 1998 at 05:36:01, blass uri wrote:

>
>On December 02, 1998 at 07:52:32, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>
>>
>>On December 02, 1998 at 06:44:11, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>I think that no program can find Nxf2
>>>The tactical idea is too deep for programs.
>>>
>>>You can try to prove that the sacrifice is wrong by suggesting a better defence
>>>for white but I remember that I analyzed it before some years with Genius3
>>>and it understood that black was better only many plies after Nxf2
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Thats the whole point, if you analyse that game, then yes Nxf2 is a winning
>>move. But if black played that move against another player then no, I do not
>>think the game would have lead to black winning.
>>
>>Blacks move was correct for that game, but it was the wrong move, and it was
>>only made correct by white stupid moves later on in the game.
>>
>>By what you are saying if understand you correctly, is that after Nxf2, no
>>matter what or who played white, Black still would have won that game.
>>
>>If that is what you are saying then I totally disagree with you.
>>You might want to try one of todays programs to analyse it and see if you get
>>the same results, and if you do, then I would very much like to see it.
>>
>>In my view at that stage of the game Nxf2 was the wrong move, and black only won
>>that game due to white's stupid moves later on in the game.
>
>after 11...Nxf2 12. Kxf2 Bh4+ 13.g3 f4
>I gave Junior5 to analyze the position for more than 6 hours
>at depth 19 after almost 6 hours and after 3,043,302 Knodes
>Junior5 understand that black is better
>
>The evaluation of Junior5 is 1.26 pawns advantage for black
>with the line 14.Kg2 fxg3 15.Rf1 gxh2 16.Kh1 Bh3 17.Bxh7+ Kh8 18.Qd3 Bxf1
>19.Nxf1 Bg5 20.Bd2 Bxd2 21.Nbxd2 Qh4 22.Bg6 Rf2 23.Re1
>
>I did not check this line and there can be mistakes in the last moves of this
>line
>
>14.Kg2 was always Junior5's best move
>Junior5 rejected 14.Bxh7+ also at depth 19(It did not finish to analyze all the
>moves at depth 19
>
>The evaluation of Junior5 at depth 18 was 0.19 advantage for white.
>
>Uri


Are you analysing this game and moves till the end of this particular game, or
are you analysing the Nxf2 move only.

Because as I said if you think black playing Nxf2 would win no matter what moves
white makes later on, then I disagree totally.

Why not let two strong chess programs fight this out, I would say the top five
chess programs today would be stronger than the two players who played that
game.

And see if black will still win. Somehow I do not think they will.

I played CM6000 as white and CM5500 as black, on equal machines and white won. I
did save the game, but when I went to look at it yesterday there was an error in
the file, but I am sure you should be able to play two top programs against
themselves and you might see white can win.

I will over the weekend try and play this game from the Nxf2 and see what
happens this time.




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