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Subject: Re: What's going on here?

Author: blass uri

Date: 05:24:09 12/03/98

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On December 03, 1998 at 07:15:16, Micheal Cummings wrote:

>
>On December 03, 1998 at 05:36:01, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On December 02, 1998 at 07:52:32, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On December 02, 1998 at 06:44:11, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think that no program can find Nxf2
>>>>The tactical idea is too deep for programs.
>>>>
>>>>You can try to prove that the sacrifice is wrong by suggesting a better defence
>>>>for white but I remember that I analyzed it before some years with Genius3
>>>>and it understood that black was better only many plies after Nxf2
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Thats the whole point, if you analyse that game, then yes Nxf2 is a winning
>>>move. But if black played that move against another player then no, I do not
>>>think the game would have lead to black winning.
>>>
>>>Blacks move was correct for that game, but it was the wrong move, and it was
>>>only made correct by white stupid moves later on in the game.
>>>
>>>By what you are saying if understand you correctly, is that after Nxf2, no
>>>matter what or who played white, Black still would have won that game.
>>>
>>>If that is what you are saying then I totally disagree with you.
>>>You might want to try one of todays programs to analyse it and see if you get
>>>the same results, and if you do, then I would very much like to see it.
>>>
>>>In my view at that stage of the game Nxf2 was the wrong move, and black only won
>>>that game due to white's stupid moves later on in the game.
>>
>>after 11...Nxf2 12. Kxf2 Bh4+ 13.g3 f4
>>I gave Junior5 to analyze the position for more than 6 hours
>>at depth 19 after almost 6 hours and after 3,043,302 Knodes
>>Junior5 understand that black is better
>>
>>The evaluation of Junior5 is 1.26 pawns advantage for black
>>with the line 14.Kg2 fxg3 15.Rf1 gxh2 16.Kh1 Bh3 17.Bxh7+ Kh8 18.Qd3 Bxf1
>>19.Nxf1 Bg5 20.Bd2 Bxd2 21.Nbxd2 Qh4 22.Bg6 Rf2 23.Re1
>>
>>I did not check this line and there can be mistakes in the last moves of this
>>line
>>
>>14.Kg2 was always Junior5's best move
>>Junior5 rejected 14.Bxh7+ also at depth 19(It did not finish to analyze all the
>>moves at depth 19
>>
>>The evaluation of Junior5 at depth 18 was 0.19 advantage for white.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>Are you analysing this game and moves till the end of this particular game, or
>are you analysing the Nxf2 move only.

I am analyzing the Nxf2 only after 11...Nxf2 the moves that my programs want to
play are 12.Kxf2 and after Bh4+ 13.g3  and after 13....f4
Junior5 fwants to play 14.Kg2 with advantage of 1.26 pawns for black.

The first move when Junior5 suggests a different move from the game is after
14...fxg3 when it suggests 15.Rf1

>
>Because as I said if you think black playing Nxf2 would win no matter what moves
>white makes later on, then I disagree totally.
>
>Why not let two strong chess programs fight this out, I would say the top five
>chess programs today would be stronger than the two players who played that
>game.

I agree and I will do it but the evaluation of Junior5 was a clear advantage for
black after 15.Rf1
I will try to play Junior5 against itself or against Fritz5 in a serious game(30
minutes per move).

Uri



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