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Subject: Re: Transposition into won endgame

Author: Thomas Mayer

Date: 04:10:55 01/31/04

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Hi Kurt,

>>>The position below is from a 90m+30s game between
>>>Shredder8 and ChessTiger15 in which White easily
>>>won with 45.Qf6 and an won pawn ending.
>>
>>Another one, where White even gives a bishop to being exchange queens and
>>transpose into a won pawn endgame (KPP-KPP only). It occured in a game Crafty
>>17.14 - Delfi 4.2, 40/10m P3/700 MHz. IIRC, only 4-piece tbs. were available.
>>
>>[D]8/8/2q1k3/1p2B3/3Q4/PKP5/1P6/8 w - - 0 86
>>
>>86.Qd6+!
>>
>>I don't know if it's the fastest way to mate (I guess so), but also Qd6+ is
>>human-like IMO, because after the very simple
>>
>>86. Qd6+ Qxd6 87. Bxd6 Kxd6 88. a4
>>
>>it's very easy for White. So no need to deal with "endless" counter-checks from
>>a black queen...
>>
>>Analysis by Crafty 19.06, P3/700 MHz:
>>
>>86.Kb4 Qb7 87.Qc5 Kf5 88.Qxb5 Qa8 89.Bd6+ Kg6 90.Qd3+ Kf6 91.Qd4+ Kf7 92.a4
>>  +-  (7.84)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
>>  +-  (9.50)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:10  3613kN, tb=9
>>86.Qd6+ Qxd6 87.Bxd6 Kxd6 88.Kb4 Kc6 89.a4 Kb6 90.b3 Kc6 91.a5 Kd6 92.Kxb5 Kd5
>>93.a6
>>  +-  (10.58)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:11  3747kN, tb=13
>>  +-  (11.44)   Depth: 13/32   00:00:22  8183kN, tb=223
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mike Scheidl
>
>
>     Hi Mike
>     It's quite remarkable that Crafty 19.06 found the most
>     easiest and human-like win with Qd6+. Most engines are
>     simply unable to do so [exception = Deep Sjeng 1.5 UCI].
>     Kurt

for Quark this seems to be easy - it chooses that move after 2 seconds on Athlon
MP1800+:

00:00:00  d->05  +6.95  c3c4 b5c4 d4c4 c6d5 e5f4 d5c4 b3c4 e6f5 f4e3 TBHits:1
00:00:00  d->07  +7.03  c3c4 c6f3 b3b4 b5c4 d4d6 e6f7 d6d7 f7f8 d7g7 f8e8 g7g8
e8d7 g8c4 TBHits:10
00:00:00  d->07  +7.03  c3c4 c6f3 b3b4 b5c4 d4d6 e6f7 d6d7 f7f8 d7g7 f8e8 g7g8
e8d7 g8c4 TBHits:11
00:00:00  d->08  +7.01  c3c4 c6f3 b3b4 b5c4 d4d6 e6f5 d6f6 f5e4 f6c6 e4e3 e5d4
e3e2 c6f3 TBHits:37
00:00:00  d->08  +7.01  c3c4 c6f3 b3b4 b5c4 d4d6 e6f5 d6f6 f5e4 f6c6 e4e3 e5d4
e3e2 c6f3 TBHits:47
00:00:01  d->09  +7.27  c3c4 c6f3 b3b4 b5c4 d4c4 e6d7 c4c7 d7e8 b2b3 f3e4 b4b5
e4d5 b5a4 d5d3 TBHits:155
00:00:01  d->09  +7.93  d4d6! TBHits:175
00:00:01  d->09  +8.18  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 b3b4 d7c6 d6c5 c6d5 b4b5 TBHits:212
00:00:02  d->10  +8.48  d4d6! TBHits:228
00:00:02  d->10  +8.82  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 c3c4 b5b4 a3b4 d7c6 d6c5 c6d7 b4b5
TBHits:270
00:00:03  d->10  +8.82  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 c3c4 b5b4 a3b4 d7c6 d6c5 c6d7 b4b5
TBHits:478
00:00:04  d->11  +9.11  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 a3a4 d7e6 a4b5 e6d7 c3c4 d7e6
TBHits:563
00:00:06  d->11  +9.11  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 a3a4 d7e6 a4b5 e6d7 c3c4 d7e6
TBHits:831
00:00:07  d->12  +9.42  d4d6! TBHits:894
00:00:07  d->12  +9.42  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 c3c4 d7e6 c4b5 e6d5 d6e7 d5e5 b5b6
e5e4 b6b7 TBHits:1081
00:00:13  d->12  +9.42  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 c3c4 d7e6 c4b5 e6d5 d6e7 d5e5 b5b6
e5e4 b6b7 TBHits:1890
00:00:13  d->13  +9.72  d4d6! TBHits:1916
00:00:15  d->13  +10.19  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 a3a4 b5b4 c3b4 d7c6 b4b5 c6b7 a4a5
TBHits:2847
00:00:28  d->13  +10.19  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 a3a4 b5b4 c3b4 d7c6 b4b5 c6b7 a4a5
TBHits:4784
00:00:28  d->14  +10.66  d4d6! TBHits:4817
00:00:28  d->14  +11.90  d4d6!! TBHits:4821
00:00:32  d->14  +15.92  d4d6!!! TBHits:5672
00:00:38  d->14  +17.15  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 d6b4 d7e6 c3c4 e6e5 c4b5 e5d5 b5b6
d5e4 b6b7 e4d4 a3a4 d4d3 TBHits:10510
00:00:59  d->14  +17.15  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 d6b4 d7e6 c3c4 e6e5 c4b5 e5d5 b5b6
d5e4 b6b7 e4d4 a3a4 d4d3 TBHits:14130
00:01:02  d->15  +17.45  d4d6! TBHits:15697
00:01:03  d->15  +17.46  d4d6 c6d6 e5d6 e6d7 a3a4 b5b4 a4a5 d7c6 a5a6 c6d7 a6a7
d7e6 b3b4 e6d7 d6f4 d7e6 a7a8q TBHits:16379

with your position it had way more problems and did need slightly over 5 minutes
to find the correct move.

Greets, Thomas



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