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Subject: Re: Shredder 8 vs. Fritz 8 (8.0.0.23) Blitz 3 0, 200 game test

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 10:32:00 02/02/04

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On February 01, 2004 at 02:39:25, George Sobala wrote:

>On January 30, 2004 at 22:08:18, James T. Walker wrote:
>
>>On January 30, 2004 at 12:01:23, George Sobala wrote:
>>
>>>My conclusion is pretty much like yours - when two engines are even only
>>>approximately of similar strength, the randomness of the play caused by the very
>>>short time control is far greater than the true difference in strengths. You can
>>>measure out to 1000000 games, and all you do is measure the randomness of blitz
>>>play.
>>>
>>>Far better to play fewer but longer games.
>>
>>If you flip a coin 200 times and get heads 101 times and tails 99 times would
>>you conclude that it was because you didn't flip the coin high enough into the
>>air?  In my opinion your conclusion about randomness caused by short time
>>controls is the same thing.  Two programs of approximately equal strength will
>>naturally have very close results.  I feel certain however if you run a million
>>games you will have a very good answer as to which program is stronger between
>>Fritz8/Shredder8.  Programs today on modern hardware are looking ahead about 10
>>ply minimum with extensions in some cases another 20/30 ply at blitz time
>>controls.  I would not call this random play.  Programs today play better chess
>>at 5/0 than 99% of human chess players playing at 40/2 hours.
>>By the way, in my blitz database, Shredder 8 is only 13 Elo ahead of Shredder
>>7.04 and 19 Elo ahead of Fritz 8.
>>Jim
>
>You are wrong because a chess game is not a coin flip. In a series of 3 minute
>blitz games, a fair proportion of the games are decided in a mad end-game time
>scramble where the engines are searching very few ply indeed. This is the
>"randomness" element that does _not_ reflect on the true strength of the
>engines.

And yet . . . It may be possible to optimize the design of a chess engine for
speed chess.  Right?

Bob D.



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