Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 14:01:57 12/04/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 03, 1998 at 09:38:22, Didzis Cirulis wrote:
>On December 02, 1998 at 14:52:39, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On December 01, 1998 at 15:02:48, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>On November 30, 1998 at 02:03:43, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 30, 1998 at 00:16:47, Reynolds Takata wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I attempted to play CM3000(in micro chess layout) against CM4000, CM5500, and
>>>>>CM6000. CM3000 was actually winning about 30% of the games! I expected that it
>>>>>wouldn't win any, as i have found CM3000 positionally weak, though the tactics
>>>>>aren't too bad. These games were on one comp running both progs, how much
>>>>>effect should this have?
>>>>
>>>>If you play programs on one computer, you should disable thinking on opponent's
>>>>time on both, or else the result means nothing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>The main problem is verifying that both engines are getting equal CPU time.
>>>Unfortunately, this is highly unlikely because Chessmaster 3000 is a DOS
>>>application and 4000 and 5500 are Windows applications. Due to the way Windows
>>>switches back and forth between DOS applications, it is very unlikely that both
>>>programs are getting relatively equal time to think, regardless of whether you
>>>have both engines thinking during their opponent's time.
>>>Windows tends to give a higher priority to DOS applications, which accounts for
>>>CM3000's unexpectedly high win percentage.
>>>Turning off "deep thinking" will not make a difference as far as CPU time goes,
>>>because Windows switches back and forth between apps very quickly. What it WILL
>>>do, however, is make the engines play worse overall. And, I imagine that this is
>>>unintended.
>>>
>>>jm
>>
>>
>>You can play a DOS program against a Windows program giving equal chances to
>>both programs. You can also play 2 DOS programs.
>>
>>It will work with most programs except some bad behaviour Windows programs.
>>
>>The MAIN thing is to disable permanent brain (or deep thinking, or thinking on
>>opponent's time) in BOTH programs.
>>
>>Then just set up the properties of your DOS box to:
>>* Run the DOS program full screen and switch between the programs with Alt-Tab
>>* Give the DOS box maximum CPU time when it has the focus (sensitivity slider
>>all the way to the left).
>>* Give the DOS box NO CPU time when it is in the background (always suspend when
>>in the background).
>>
>>When you use these settings, Windows will give 97% CPU time to the program that
>>gets the focus, and will not switch back and forth between apps as you say. You
>>should of course close any other program.
>>
>>However this does not work with some bad written Windows programs. For example
>>Genius5 will steal 30% of CPU time to the DOS program. To solve this, use the
>>DOS version of Genius5 and use the settings described for a DOS box.
>>
>>Before doing a match, you should ensure that no program runs slower. Use a test
>>position at a given depth, and run the program on this position:
>>1) when it is alone in the system
>>2) when the other program is open in the background
>>
>>If you follow these rules, you can play fair matches manually using only one
>>computer. I do this very often, and believe me I am much concerned about
>>fairness, as I use these matches to decide if Chess Tiger plays better or not.
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>If you are interested, I could explain HOW to do calculations for the fair
>matches of two chess programs on one and the same PC. Email me or wait until
>this information appears in a subsection of my Computer Chess Site.
>http://www.konts.lv/usr/Didzis/index.html
>I am doing the testing of Chess Tiger for Christophe... :-)
>
>Didzis
>
>Didzis
It would be interesting that such a paper also go into the "Computer Chess
Resources Center". I see the question about how to play 2 engines on the same
computer appearing here again and again, so it would be good for everybody. Your
contribution would be appreciated. Contact Fernando.
I have seen people reporting tournaments they have done on a single computer
without taking the necessary care about CPU allocation. Some people first ask
here, and for those we can provide the right information before they loose their
time. But how many have played hundreds of games without proper time allocation
settings???
Christophe
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