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Subject: Re: Another anti null-mover engine position (and endgame study)

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 22:07:47 02/06/04

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On February 06, 2004 at 23:39:40, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 06, 2004 at 22:46:15, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On February 06, 2004 at 13:48:48, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote:
>>
>>>This endgame study can be game following the sequence
>>>
>>>1.Bd1 g1Q 2.Bxa4 Qc1 3.Bxd7 h5 4.Be8 h4 5.Ba4 Line
>>>
>>>[d] 8/3p4/p6p/k2N3B/p7/K6p/PP4pP/8 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Many engines (Fritz 8, Hiarcs 8, Ruffian 1.01) cannot win this endgame, probably
>>>due to the well known null-move problem for extreme and rare positions such as
>>>this.
>>
>>These programs have an obvious bug in their implementation of null move. They
>>should not be using stalemate as a fail high for a null move. Stalemate is tempo
>>dependent thing and null move mucks up the tempi. You can think of stalemate as
>>an obvious sort of zugzwang. Note, that it doesn't matter which side gets
>>stalemated after a null move. The stalemate should be treated as a fail low for
>>the null moving side regardless.
>
>I see no stalemate.

1.Bd1 g1Q 2.Bxa4 Qc1 3.Bxd7 h5 4.Be8 h4 5.Ba4 black_null_move 6. Bd7 Qxb2+
7.Kxb2 stalemate.

>
>black has a queen after Ba4(see the corrected second diagram) and the queen has
>to move but every place that the queen go is bad.
>
>Uri



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