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Subject: Re: B33 ANALYSING HELP REQUESTED

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 08:22:03 02/10/04

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On February 10, 2004 at 10:50:05, Bigler wrote:

>On February 10, 2004 at 10:30:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On February 10, 2004 at 09:16:25, Bigler wrote:
>>
>>>On February 10, 2004 at 07:51:34, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 10, 2004 at 06:30:09, Kim Roper Jensen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 09, 2004 at 14:21:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 09, 2004 at 05:20:48, Bigler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Could you please help me by analysing EXHAUSTIVELY this position and find the
>>>>>>>best way for black to play. (not just say i.e. Shredder 8 says +0.6 for white
>>>>>>>after 17…Rb8)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>POSITION:
>>>>>>>1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 6.Ndb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5
>>>>>>>9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Nd5 Bg7 11.Bd3 Ne7 12.Nxe7 Qxe7 13.0-0 0-0 14.c4 f5 15.Qf3 Qb7
>>>
>>>I nevertheless still have a question in this line. If 15...Qb7 is not good for
>>>black. there is an issue in for black in this line as 15...bxc4 is lost and
>>>15...Re8 is also lost. The only remaining line is 15...f4
>>>
>>>If you think that either 15...bxc4 or Re8 are not lost would you agree that we
>>>play it.
>>>
>>>Let me know !!
>>
>>You know my judgement 15.Qf3 +-
>>
>>So basically it doesn't matter what you try to find at move 15 or 16 or 17. It's
>>IMHO 1-0 when white doesn't make serious mistakes.
>>
>>You can try and fiddle and try, but if something is lost, it is a lost position
>>then.
>>
>>Which by the way is not always so easy to proof at a 40 in 2 game. However
>>compare it to for example benko gambit which i play myself sometimes too. No
>>hair at my body doubts that this is a lost opening for black, yet the tactical
>>complications are so big for white that there is many opponents i do not fear
>>trying it against.
>>
>>In fact i see several IMs lose it with white.
>>
>>In this Sveshnikov line this is not the case however. White has after some hard
>>work the past 14 years from many players, found the way to win these lines in
>>convincing ways.
>>
>>So i wish you good luck but advice you to look to lines that are more
>>interesting.
>>
>>You should really look to what Kramnik plays with black against strong human
>>opponents. That's in general giving white at most a very slight advantage, if
>>there is any advantage at all.
>>
>>>Best regards
>>>>>>>16.exf5 Qxf3 17.gxf3... and now ????
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My judgement after playing this line for years is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>15. Qf3 +-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh by the way, many GM's agree here with me. Please read for example GM Jacob
>>>>>>Aagaards' book : "easy guide to the sveshnikov sicilian".
>>>>>
>>>>>Well Jacon is only an IM, although he got a norm in the rilton cup(where he
>>>>>played a nice french from the whites side against stellan brynell) i know this
>>>>>because i have known Jacob for some years ( 10+ )
>>>>
>>>>I didn't check FIDE list. He sure wrote a book above IM level!
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The few 'unclear' lines you can find easily improvements to +- not seldom ++--.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just like certain mainlines French this is another mainline that's completely
>>>>>>refuted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>17...... Rb8 18.Be4 +/-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>17….. bxc4 18.Be4 d5 19.Bxd5 Rb8 20.Nxc4 +/-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When looking at the position after 17.gxf3 it seems difficult to believe that
>>>>>>>black is unable to equalise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Many thanks in advance for your help !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Best regards
>
>So according to your statement the line 11...Ne7 is already lost for black ?!

This is your conclusion, not mine yet.

>Which variation do you recomend ? what was interesting with the line 10...Bg7 is
>that there is less variation to lurn than 10...f5 which is actually the most
>played line.

10..f5 looks sound to me.

>By the way, what is your comments and/or improvement of the game that Kramnik
>lost against Anand. Did he play according to your assumption the best line ?
>
>Thanks for your help and sharing idees.
>
>Best regards

I have not analysed that game and if i would i would not emit opinions either.

In fact i lack the time to play myself even which would be first priority. Been
busy improving evaluation of DIEP a lot. Today i cannot do much though except
compile both an intel c++ P4 optimized executable and a visual c++ version from
the latest stable diep and pray it plays ok.

Let's see how it does do in Paderborn!




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