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Subject: Re: Bitboards

Author: Frank Phillips

Date: 10:54:31 12/06/98

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On December 06, 1998 at 10:23:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 06, 1998 at 05:55:00, Frank Phillips wrote:
>
>>On December 05, 1998 at 21:36:46, Roberto Waldteufel wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On December 05, 1998 at 17:22:43, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a PII are programs based on bitboards inherently faster than those based  on
>>>>integer arrays?
>>>
>>>Hi Frank,
>>>
>>>On the Pentium, you have two very useful assembler instructions for bitboards,
>>>the bsf and bsr instructions that find the first or last 1 bit in a 32-bit
>>>number. These instructions are ideally suited to bitboard operations, but they
>>>used to be terribly slow. Not any more, however: on the PII and PPro processors,
>>>these instructions are very fast. As long as the testing is done on CPU
>>>registers (not in memory), a bsf or bsr instruction executes in either 1 or 2
>>>CPU clocks (depending on pipelining efficiency). So on a PII or PPro I think
>>>bitboards are a really big win, but if your program is going to be used on older
>>>machines, you might think twice about using the bit scan instructions - they can
>>>by more than 300 times slower in the worst case.
>>>
>>>Be careful how you code your bitboard routines if you try them. You will need to
>>>code them in assembler, and it's quite fiddly to get right. But when you do,
>>>bitboards fly on a PII. You might gain a good insight into bitboards by looking
>>>at Earnst Heinz's Darkthought web site. If you are interested in implementing
>>>rotated bitboards, Bob Hyatt is preparing (has prepared?) an article for ICCA
>>>publication on the subject. He sent me a rough draft copy, and I found it
>>>explains rotated bitboard implementation very well indeed. Whether or not
>>>rotated bitboards are right for you depends on your program's data structures
>>>and also on your implementation. My own experiments on a PII have shown that I
>>>can generate the same information using ordinary bitboards faster than I can
>>>using rotated bitboards, but the implementation I use relies very heavily on the
>>>bit scan instructions, and as I said, these only became fast on the more recent
>>>pentiums, and the rotated bitboards would undoubtedly be far superior on any
>>>machine that did not offer this fast bit scan capability (eg pentium plain and
>>>pentium MMX, also 486 has bit scans but they are slow)
>>>
>>>Hope this helps. Good luck!
>>>
>>>Roberto
>>Roberto
>>
>>Thanks for the answer.  I was wondering whether to make the leap to bitboards
>>having just ?completed? the barebones of my first program based on the integer
>>array approach in TSCP.  I have no plans for the results of my rather mediocre
>>efforts - just for personal interest.
>>
>>The problem as always is getting hold of information .
>>
>>Bob  is your paper available other than by subscribing to ICCA?
>>
>>A while ago someone praised Bob Hyatt for all the help he gives to beginners and
>>others alike.  I whole heartedly endorse this and would also praise Tom Kerrigan
>>for making TSCP readily available.  As someone new to both programming and chess
>>programming I found it a wonderful resource, without which I would probably
>>never have got started.  (Crafty is another  well documented source, but way up
>>the learning curve for a complete beginner).
>>
>>Frank
>
>
>I haven't finished this yet...  I've sent it to a couple of people in draft
>form when they asked...  And will do the same for you if you are interested.
>Note that it is a rough draft, reasonably complete, but not "polished" yet...

Bob

Definitely interested.





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