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Subject: Re: Multi-Hydra Computer Feasible in Future?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:31:58 02/16/04

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2004 at 12:18:13, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On February 16, 2004 at 12:07:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2004 at 11:37:54, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On February 15, 2004 at 15:14:16, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 15, 2004 at 15:09:57, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 15, 2004 at 15:06:26, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 15, 2004 at 14:34:08, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I envision a standard equipment rack with 32 or 64 Hydra cards, a power supply,
>>>>>>>possibly a conventional computer for orchestration, and fans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do you think Hydra was running on a single computer, with a single card?
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, that is what I thought.  What was actually done?
>>>>
>>>>4 Dual Xeon 2.4Ghz PCs & 8 FPGA cards (2 per PC)
>>>>
>>>>The PCs are probably $5k a piece.
>>>
>>>I agree here.
>>>
>>>> The cards, about $500 a piece.
>>>
>>>$3000 a card at least.
>>>
>>>Hydra gets sponsored by a FPGA company called Xilinx.
>>>
>>>I hope you realize that it takes at least 10 seconds for Hydra to get the 8
>>>cards to run well.
>>>
>>>So you can never use it in blitz in fact. Something like 30 0 is where it would
>>>excel at though when having a quick operator.
>>>
>>>>$25k worth of hardware, just to draw Shredder 8 ($50 program) on a PC.
>>>>Still think Hydra is the 'engine of the future'?  :)
>>>
>>>Chrilly is good at peeking at 1 or 2 tournaments before people figure out how to
>>>beat his creation. 1998 nimzo was very aggressive and could win by doing that
>>>some games and was tactical strong because of the agressive tuning.
>>>
>>>2003 he has something even more aggressive. by default a passer at the 7th row
>>>is worth more than a piece which usually is like 4.2+ pawns.
>>>
>>>Note we had a major discussion there at IPCC 2004.
>>>
>>>To quote it therefore in the Chrilly language, a passer at 2nd row is worth in
>>>Hydra about 10 pawns.
>>
>>That is impossible.  Because it would _never_ promote the pawn since a queen
>>would then be worth less than the pawn on the 7th...
>
>pawn = 64 in hydra.

I'm not sure why that would matter.  pawn=64, 10pawns = 640, queen = 9pawns.
All the same thing, when everything is relative to the value of a pawn...


>
>You will understand why in diep - hydra, this hydra wanted Nxd2 for white each
>move giving away a knight each move. The pawn was worth more than a knight which
>is like 4.2+ in Nimzo.
>
>>
>>>
>>>You will realize then very well that it will give away a piece always for such a
>>>passer and therefore hydra always pushes all pawns it has, good or bad.
>>>
>>>Such ultra agressive play is what Hydra shows. It's a dimension more agressive
>>>than nimzo98.
>>>
>>>Gives very interesting play, no doubt.
>>>
>>>But no correspondence player will be able to use it very well as it has very
>>>poor hashtable management (no hashtables last 6 plies at all). So the few guys
>>>who do have money to buy such creatures will not be interested.
>>>
>>>Therefore the only interesting thing from Hydra is when the Sheikh of the United
>>>Arab Emirates sponsors it to play some matches against a strong grandmaster.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If so, you're wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Feasible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sure.  Been done before.  Google for 'Deep Blue'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If so, what performance could be expected?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>'Diminishing returns' comes to mind...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Note that it might not be necessary to combine the Hydras in the most efficient
>>>>>>>way possible.  Maybe not SMA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob D.



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