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Subject: Crafty multiplying matrice

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 15:25:19 02/16/04

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On February 16, 2004 at 13:28:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 16, 2004 at 12:08:28, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2004 at 12:02:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2004 at 11:30:57, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>
>>>>I still don't understand why Fritz nor Shredder have not been able to get an AMD
>>>>sponsor, since 95% of the times it is sponsored by company that runs Intel
>>>>inside. They need to get a different sponsor in order to beat Hydra in the World
>>>>Championship.
>>>>
>>>>Hydra gets effectively around 4 million nodes a second
>>>>
>>>>I am very sure that a Quad opteron for a software program is
>>>>faster than 4 fpga cards 30Mhz are.
>>>
>>>quad opteron box is NUMA.  There are some issues there that have to be addressed
>>>by anyone using such a box.  Just taking a pure SMP program and dropping it in
>>>may not produce such good results.  Dual opterons are a bit easier to use.
>>
>>It works SMP great too. The latency when using it SMP is still faster than quad
>>xeon chipset can deliver to you.
>
>No it isn't.  A single cpu has a latency in the 60ns range.  Dual is 60 for
>local, 120 for remote.  Go to 4-way and you get 60 for local, 120 for two of the
>other banks, 180 for the last bank.


>That is for a single memory reference.  Assuming a TLB hit.  IF you get a TLB
>miss you _die_ just as you do anywhere, except that it is possible that the

I didn't know Crafty nowadays was streaming sequential and that you only are
multiplying nowadays matrice.

>memory map tables are in remote memory as well, which means that your memory
>access time (not latency) turns into 3x or 4x what it should.  Opteron uses a
>3-level map because of the 48 bit virtual address space.  That means you do
>three extra memory reads when you suffer a TLB miss.

>My dual xeon has 150ns latency.  TLB misses turn that into 450.  The Opteron has

>much more variability.  60ns on a TLB hit, up to 720ns for a TLB miss where the
>page tables are in remote memory.

>>Even without PGO and using old GCC version SMP version from diep gets a lot of
>>nps at that box slightly less than it gets at a 8 processor Xeon. the numa
>>version a lot less (not sharing evaluation tables nor pawn tables and the numa
>>version tested wasn't sharing qsearch hashtables either).
>>
>>See www.aceshardware.com for diep SMP tests at quad opteron boxes.
>
>Don't need to.  I have my own quad opteron numbers with things done right...
>Whether you get good numbers with no work or not, you get _better_ numbers when
>memory is done right.  And it can be _significantly_ better.  From experience.

Well multiprocessing is way faster of course than multithreading at such
machines, that includes 2-4 itaniums too.

Your thing is continuesly busy with cache coherency, multiprocessor applications
don't suffer from that of course. DIEP is multiprocessor.

>>
>>>Another issue is that AMD will likely want to see real 64 bit applications.
>>>That is why they developed an interest in Crafty, in fact, because it really
>>>needed the 64 bit internal stuff the opteron offers.  Fritz, et al don't need
>>>nor will they use this particular part of the opteron...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fritz and Shredder run in Paderborn on an identically constructed Transtec
>>>>diagram workstation with two Intel each Xeon processors with 3,06 Ghz and 2
>>>>gigabyte memory. Deep Fritz will also count over 1 gigabyte Hashtabellen and
>>>>with 2 to 2.3 million position/second for instance a search depth on 14 to 16
>>>>sections will reach, in the final game by means of 20 sections, strongly
>>>>dependent on position and material.
>>>>
>>>>When ordered a Quad Opteron cost perhaps $45k and fpga cards cost only $3000 a
>>>>card and a 4 node cluster Quad Xeon 3.06Ghz costs less than $45k.
>>>>
>>>>Here are some comparison of a Dual Opteron versus a Dual Xeon:
>>>>http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=opt248vsxeon32a&page=5



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