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Subject: Re: The Problem With Microprocessors

Author: Slater Wold

Date: 22:35:06 02/19/04

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On February 20, 2004 at 00:31:04, Keith Evans wrote:

>On February 19, 2004 at 22:51:36, Slater Wold wrote:
>
>>On February 19, 2004 at 21:42:03, Keith Evans wrote:
>>
>>>On February 19, 2004 at 20:03:29, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Microprocessors are lovable little creatures which are ADORED by all
>>>>programmers, both male and female, because they are so easy [ : ) ] to program.
>>>>[That, in fact, is part of the problem.]  There is even a new breed of digital
>>>>engineers who have wrapped their entire careers around the little cuties.  Many
>>>>programmers owe their very professional existence to microprocessors.
>>>>
>>>>It's all an evil deception intended to make programmers and engineers alike go
>>>>astray.
>>>>
>>>>When microprocessors first became widely available, about thirty years ago, they
>>>>hit the technical world like an atom bomb.  People jumped on the microprocessor
>>>>bandwagon like they were the best thing since sex and now some even worship
>>>>microprocessors!  The new programmers, scientists, and engineers just coming out
>>>>of college think that microprocessors [and EPROMS] have been around forever,
>>>>since before creation, and that it is a SIN to design anything which does not
>>>>contain at least one microprocessor.
>>>>
>>>>It is the speed and sequential nature of microprocessors which is both their
>>>>strength and their weakness, depending on the application.
>>>>
>>>>A chess programmer sees a microprocessor as being a gift from Heaven, along with
>>>>the alpha/beta algorithm.  [Shannon is seen as being a Saint.]
>>>>
>>>>If a chess engine were functionally decomposed into simple functional elements
>>>>and if it were decided to provide hardware to perform those simple functions,
>>>>then you can be sure that the modern designer would, without hesitation, reach
>>>>for a microprocessor.  Why?  Because "That's the way things are done."  Each
>>>>functional element would have it's own dedicated microprocessor.
>>>>
>>>>Suppose the overall function of a chess engine were accomplished, mainly, by
>>>>performing the various functions sequentially, one after the other.  Suppose
>>>>also that each function is performed by hardware elements each containing a
>>>>microprocessor.  What would happen?  Since the functions would be performed one
>>>>after the other [i.e. sequentially] and since each individual simple function
>>>>would be performed by the sequential process within the microprocessor for that
>>>>simple functional element, then the net result would be no faster or better than
>>>>doing the entire chess engine function on a single microprocessor.  To make this
>>>>completely evident, note that I am postulating that only one microprocessor is
>>>>working at any given time and that after one finishes the next starts.
>>>>
>>>>It should be evident that trying to create a hardware version of a chess engine
>>>>should involve few if any microprocessors.  Only those tasks which cannot
>>>>possibly be performed non-sequentially should have a microprocessor.  If more
>>>>than one microprocessor must be used, then a way should be found for them to run
>>>>in parallel.  Better would be no microprocessors at all.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is that hardware designers skilled in digital design without the use
>>>>of microprocessors is a breed of cat which may have long since become extinct.
>>>>
>>>>Satan laughs!!!
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>If you replaced all of the Xilinx FPGAs in Hydra with Opterons do you think that
>>>it would get weaker or stronger? I vote for stronger.
>>
>>And which costs more?
>>
>>Xilinx, interestingly.
>
>It depends on which Xilinx part ;-)

You ain't putting a decent chess program into a XC2V1000, we both know that.  :)

>I think that the XC2V1000 parts are around $200 now, but you can still fork out
>say $7000 for an XC2V8000 part. I don't know how Chrilly gets his thing into an
>XCV1000E part - I am curious about exactly what he has in there. The XCV1000E
>has 1,000,000 marketing gates - if I remember correctly you typically have to
>divide that by a factor of 3 to 8 or more to convert to realistic units. Xilinx
>gurus can typically reduce that factor, but they have to be really intimate with
>the Xilinx architecture and do a lot of hand tweaking. (In my book
>http://www.andraka.com/ qualifies as a guy with "guru level" Xilinx knowledge.)
>
>-K



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