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Subject: Re: Insight Into Inner Workings of Alpha/Beta

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 14:23:06 02/22/04

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On February 22, 2004 at 16:50:26, David Mitchell wrote:

>On February 22, 2004 at 15:27:44, Bob Durrett wrote:
>
>>In  http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?350711, Christophe Theron
>>made the fascinating and thought-provoking observation that:
>>
>>
>>"Conceptually, an alpha-beta search is doing several thousands takebacks per
>>second."
>>
>>
>>I do not doubt that this is true.  However, I've never heard the alpha/beta
>>described quite that way.
>>
>>Could somebody please relate this to the more conventional concept of
>>alpha/beta?
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>Very simple, really. Before any position is evaluated, the move that leads to
>that position is "made", on a data struct inside the program. The internal
>"board", if you will.
>
>But is that position the best? The program can't tell, without comparing it to
>thousands, perhaps many thousands, of other positions. Each position is
>preceeded by the "move" that leads to it. Which has to be "made" and then
>"unmade", and then the next one "made", and "unmade", etc..
>
>The important thing to understand A/B, to me, is that _first_ you make the moves
>to a depth you choose, and only _then_ (in only from a quiet position), is the
>position evaluated thoroughly and scored. Then, A/B takes those scores and the
>moves that made them, and works back _up_ toward the root position. Best moves,
>and scores are _lifted_ up from the tips, back toward the root, (starting
>position), and scores for your opponent's moves are negated (so if they're good
>for your opponent, they're bad for you), and vice-versa.
>
>All involving many moves being "made" and "unmade", every second.
>
>It's quite an amazing algorithim, actually. It's no wonder virtually every chess
>program uses it so extensively.
>
>dave

But alpha/beta was sold as a very sophisticated thing.  Does it really just boil
down to a bunch of takebacks?  Isn't there something more than that to
alpha/beta?

Are we saying that alpha/beta is the same old thing we have all been using for
centuries, but just adapted for computers?

Still confused.

Bob D.

Bob D.



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