Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Crafty Static Evals 2 questions

Author: martin fierz

Date: 07:37:21 02/24/04

Go up one level in this thread


On February 24, 2004 at 10:19:51, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On February 24, 2004 at 09:32:08, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On February 23, 2004 at 23:05:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On February 23, 2004 at 18:52:36, Geoff Westwood wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi
>>>>
>>>>I was perusing the latest table of results, Crafty's static eval of 2 of the
>>>>passed pawn positions were interesting.
>>>>
>>>>Assuming I havent made a mistake in the cutting and pasting
>>>>
>>>>Position 1
>>>>8/4k3/8/7P/1P6/3p4/4p3/4K3 b - -; id "PP-00004"
>>>>
>>>>[D]8/4k3/8/7P/1P6/3p4/4p3/4K3 b - -
>>>>
>>>>Crafty reckons this is +4.8 (good for white). This is rather clever as although
>>>>the black king could catch either of the white passed pawns, it cannot stop
>>>>both. Also blacks 2 advanced pawns cant do anything as the white king gobbles
>>>>them up easily. Only Crafty and Tinker understand this position statically. Any
>>>>tips on what the algorithm is to sort this one out ?
>>>
>>>
>>>This is the idea I have reported here before, pointed out (demanded to be fixed
>>>in fact) by a GM friend of mine.  The idea is that the two separated pawns are
>>>better than the two connected passers.  The king stops the two connected passers
>>>easily until the enemy king supports them, meanwhile the split passers walk on
>>>in...
>>
>>i don't like the generality of your statemtent here, but - it is a small price
>>to pay if it's right in most cases. which perhaps is the case. anyway, here's my
>>question:
>>
>>what does your static eval say for the black king on e6/e5/e4/e3 ? i wouldn't be
>>surprised if it got it wrong in some cases now...
>>
>>cheers
>>  martin
>
>The question is always "what do you put in the search, what do you put in the
>eval" <shrug>.

sort of - for me the answer is clear. the point i wanted to make (not the first
time, BTW) is that returning huge evaluations in positions like this may not be
a good idea because they are *very* sensitive to details like king position.
e.g. if i got it right, then it's a white win with the king on e6, but a black
win with the king on e5. do you really want to allow your static eval to return
a white win when it might be a black win?
of course you can say that if you get it right 60% of the time, it is better
than returning an equal eval in this kind of position. but wouldn't it be better
then to return something like +- 1 so that you never blunder into this when you
are e.g. a piece up and see this type of transition?
i generally try to return huge evals only when i am very certain that they are
correct.

cheers
  martin

>I have considered trying to do a really good KP eval; at the moment it is on the
>back-burner but I might return to it someday.
>
>anthony



This page took 0.02 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.