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Subject: Re: Crafty Static Evals 2 questions

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 08:12:57 02/24/04

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On February 24, 2004 at 11:06:00, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 24, 2004 at 10:37:21, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On February 24, 2004 at 10:19:51, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>On February 24, 2004 at 09:32:08, martin fierz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 23, 2004 at 23:05:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 23, 2004 at 18:52:36, Geoff Westwood wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was perusing the latest table of results, Crafty's static eval of 2 of the
>>>>>>passed pawn positions were interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Assuming I havent made a mistake in the cutting and pasting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Position 1
>>>>>>8/4k3/8/7P/1P6/3p4/4p3/4K3 b - -; id "PP-00004"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]8/4k3/8/7P/1P6/3p4/4p3/4K3 b - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Crafty reckons this is +4.8 (good for white). This is rather clever as although
>>>>>>the black king could catch either of the white passed pawns, it cannot stop
>>>>>>both. Also blacks 2 advanced pawns cant do anything as the white king gobbles
>>>>>>them up easily. Only Crafty and Tinker understand this position statically. Any
>>>>>>tips on what the algorithm is to sort this one out ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is the idea I have reported here before, pointed out (demanded to be fixed
>>>>>in fact) by a GM friend of mine.  The idea is that the two separated pawns are
>>>>>better than the two connected passers.  The king stops the two connected passers
>>>>>easily until the enemy king supports them, meanwhile the split passers walk on
>>>>>in...
>>>>
>>>>i don't like the generality of your statemtent here, but - it is a small price
>>>>to pay if it's right in most cases. which perhaps is the case. anyway, here's my
>>>>question:
>>>>
>>>>what does your static eval say for the black king on e6/e5/e4/e3 ? i wouldn't be
>>>>surprised if it got it wrong in some cases now...
>>>>
>>>>cheers
>>>>  martin
>>>
>>>The question is always "what do you put in the search, what do you put in the
>>>eval" <shrug>.
>>
>>sort of - for me the answer is clear. the point i wanted to make (not the first
>>time, BTW) is that returning huge evaluations in positions like this may not be
>>a good idea because they are *very* sensitive to details like king position.
>>e.g. if i got it right, then it's a white win with the king on e6, but a black
>>win with the king on e5. do you really want to allow your static eval to return
>>a white win when it might be a black win?
>>of course you can say that if you get it right 60% of the time, it is better
>>than returning an equal eval in this kind of position. but wouldn't it be better
>>then to return something like +- 1 so that you never blunder into this when you
>>are e.g. a piece up and see this type of transition?
>>i generally try to return huge evals only when i am very certain that they are
>>correct.
>>
>>cheers
>>  martin
>
>You are looking at this the wrong way.  If you want 100% accuracy, you will die
>from it.  :)
>
>If you don't do what I do, you will like connected passers, and in 90% of the
>games I will beat you when that comes up.  Do you want to be right 100% of the
>cases you recognize, leaving 95% as "unclear and probably lost" or do you want
>to be right in 90% of the total cases?
>
>I choose the latter...
>
>No doubt it can be made more accurate.  But no doubt that without it, it is even
>less accurate...

Why not get rid of bugs when you know about them?

Bob D.


>
>
>>
>>>I have considered trying to do a really good KP eval; at the moment it is on the
>>>back-burner but I might return to it someday.
>>>
>>>anthony



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