Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:52:41 02/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 25, 2004 at 07:35:53, Sune Fischer wrote: > >>> >>>I believe that this is not really a tactical shoot, this is an evaluation based >>>sacrifice. Some engines will find this very fast, others won't find it at all. >> >>I agree >>I saw no claim that it is a tactical sacrifice. >> >>My program see +0.16 for black at depth 13 after Nxc3 bxc3 >>It probably can find Nxc3 from the root position after enough time but it was >>not important enough for me to check. >> >>After Nxc3+ bxc3 the score is positive since depth 10. > >If I'm not mistaken white gets two minors for a rook and pawn + a busted pawn >shelter. > >The two knights for the rook and pawn is evaluated as good white in frenzee, 2 knights for rook and pawn is evaluated as good for white in most programs. >and I don't give huge scores for a busted shelter when there is no eminent >attack. > >I haven't analyzed the position thoroughly but to me it looks like the black >pieces aren't coordinated very well for an attack(?), and white has some >defensive capabilities as well. > >I question if it is not too speculative to sacrifice here without a deeper >search to see if the attack is really dangerous or not. > >Ruffian's tuning seems more balanced, as posted elsewhere on this thread it >doesn't jump at it instantly but takes a little while before it convinces itself >that the sac is 'good enough'. Movei also does not jump at it instantly. > >Frenzee fails high by about 0.4 pawn for white after the exchange and it stays >that way for a few minutes. I guess if I give 0.5 pawn more for a busted shelter >it too will find the amazing sacrifice instantly :) > >>> >>>Mine still likes white better after Nxc3 bxc3 and a few minutes of search. I suspect that it did not search deep enough Here is yace analysis after 1...Nxc3 2.bxc3 Nd5 3.Rc1 cxd4 New game [D]2rq1rk1/pb1p2pp/1p2p3/3n1p2/3p2P1/P1PBPN1P/3NQP1R/1KR5 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace Paderborn: 4.exd4 Nxc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 µ (-0.94) Depth: 1 00:00:00 4.cxd4 +- (1.83) Depth: 1 00:00:00 4.cxd4 +- (1.83) Depth: 1 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 +- (1.42) Depth: 2 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.gxf5 Bxf3 7.Nxf3 Rxa3 8.fxe6 Rxd3 9.Qxd3 Rxf3 ² (0.42) Depth: 2 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 = (0.10) Depth: 2 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 = (0.10) Depth: 2 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 = (0.10) Depth: 3 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 = (0.10) Depth: 3 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 = (-0.22) Depth: 4 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 = (-0.22) Depth: 4 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 5 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 5 00:00:00 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 exf5 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 118kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 exf5 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 6/21 00:00:01 307kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 Bxf3 8.Nxf3 = (0.02) Depth: 7/21 00:00:01 420kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.gxf5 Bxf3 8.Nxf3 = (0.02) Depth: 7/24 00:00:03 646kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.Ne5 f4 8.Nxd7 Rc8 = (-0.14) Depth: 8/24 00:00:04 1008kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.Ne5 f4 8.Nxd7 Rc8 = (-0.14) Depth: 8/27 00:00:10 2560kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.Ne5 f4 8.Nxd7 Rc8 9.Nc5 = (0.09) Depth: 9/27 00:00:14 3963kN 4.cxd4 Nc3+ 5.Rxc3 Rxc3 6.Kb2 Qc7 7.Ne5 f4 8.Nxd7 Rc8 9.Nc5 = (0.09) Depth: 9/28 00:00:22 5856kN 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc8+ 6.Bc2 Ba6 7.Qd1 fxg4 8.Ne5 g3 9.Qh5 Bd3 10.Kd1 gxh2 11.Bxd3 = (0.09) Depth: 10/31 00:00:39 11155kN 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc8+ 6.Bc2 Ba6 7.Qd1 fxg4 8.Ne5 g3 9.Qh5 Bd3 10.Kd1 gxh2 11.Bxd3 = (0.09) Depth: 10/31 00:01:00 16648kN 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc7+ 6.Bc2 Nc3 7.Qf1 Rc8 8.Kb2 Ne4 9.Bb3 Nxd2 10.Ka2 ³ (-0.31) Depth: 11/34 00:01:15 21007kN 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc7+ 6.Bc2 Nc3 7.Qc4 Qxc4 8.Nxc4 Bxf3 9.Ne5 Bc6 10.Nxc6 dxc6 11.g5 ³ (-0.62) Depth: 11/34 00:01:36 26788kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 25.02.2004) When I go backward it does not find significantly better move for white inspite of the fact that 3.Kc2 seems to it slightly better New game [D]2rq1rk1/pb1p2pp/1p2p3/2pn1p2/3P2P1/P1PBPN1P/3NQP1R/1K1R4 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace Paderborn: 3.dxc5 Nxc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 5.Bxe2 Rxc5 -+ (-5.35) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.gxf5 Nxc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 5.Bxe2 Rxf5 -+ (-5.25) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.Ba6 Nxc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 5.Bxb7 -+ (-5.01) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.Qe1 Nxc3+ 4.Kc1 Nxd1 5.Kxd1 cxd4 6.Nxd4 fxg4 µ (-1.00) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.Qf1 Nxc3+ 4.Kc1 Nxd1 5.Kxd1 cxd4 6.Nxd4 fxg4 µ (-0.99) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.c4 +- (2.09) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.c4 +- (2.09) Depth: 1 00:00:00 3.c4 Nc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 -+ (-3.22) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.c4 Nc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 5.Bxe2 -+ (-4.26) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.c4 Nc3+ 4.Ka1 Nxe2 5.Bxe2 Bxf3 6.Nxf3 cxd4 7.Nxd4 fxg4 -+ (-4.91) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Qf1 Nxc3+ 4.Kc1 Nxd1 5.Kxd1 cxd4 6.Nxd4 fxg4 µ (-0.99) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Qf1 Nxc3+ 4.Kc1 Nxd1 5.Kxd1 cxd4 6.Nxd4 fxg4 µ (-0.99) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Rc1 cxd4 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc7+ 6.Bc2 Nc3 7.Qc4 Qxc4 8.Nxc4 Bxf3 9.gxf5 Rc8 10.Ne5 Be4 11.f3 ³ (-0.62) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Rc1 cxd4 4.cxd4 Rxc1+ 5.Kxc1 Qc7+ 6.Bc2 Nc3 7.Qc4 Qxc4 8.Nxc4 Bxf3 9.gxf5 Rc8 10.Ne5 Be4 11.f3 ³ (-0.62) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Kc1 cxd4 = (-0.10) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Kc1 Nxc3 ± (0.96) Depth: 2 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 ± (1.14) Depth: 2/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 +- (1.43) Depth: 2/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 +- (1.43) Depth: 2/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 +- (1.43) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 +- (1.43) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.Nf1 dxe3 5.fxe3 ± (1.03) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 ² (0.66) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 ² (0.66) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.Bxf5 exf5 5.c4 ² (0.26) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 = (-0.11) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 = (-0.11) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Bd5 7.gxf5 exf5 = (-0.21) Depth: 6/15 00:00:01 70kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Bd5 7.gxf5 exf5 = (-0.21) Depth: 6/23 00:00:01 116kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Qc7 7.gxf5 exf5 = (-0.16) Depth: 7/23 00:00:01 186kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Qc7 7.gxf5 exf5 = (-0.16) Depth: 7/23 00:00:01 288kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Qc7 7.Qc2 Qxc2+ 8.Bxc2 fxg4 ³ (-0.39) Depth: 8/23 00:00:02 594kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Qc7 7.Qc2 Qxc2+ 8.Bxc2 fxg4 ³ (-0.39) Depth: 8/28 00:00:04 955kN 3.Kb2 cxd4 4.cxd4 Nc3 5.Qf1 Nxd1+ 6.Qxd1 Qc7 7.Qc2 Qxc2+ 8.Bxc2 fxg4 9.Ne5 gxh3 10.Nxd7 ³ (-0.49) Depth: 9/28 00:00:07 2002kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 Bxf3+ 7.Nxf3 f4 8.exf4 ³ (-0.48) Depth: 9/31 00:00:13 3642kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 Qe7 7.exd4 Qxa3 ³ (-0.44) Depth: 9/31 00:00:14 4053kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 Qe7 7.exd4 Qxa3 ³ (-0.44) Depth: 9/31 00:00:14 4053kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 dxe3 7.Qxe3 Qf6 8.gxf5 Qa1+ 9.Ke2 exf5 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 10/34 00:00:40 12875kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 dxe3 7.Qxe3 Qf6 8.gxf5 Qa1+ 9.Ke2 exf5 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 10/34 00:00:51 15732kN 3.Kc2 cxd4 4.c4 Nc3 5.Qe1 Nxd1 6.Kxd1 dxe3 7.Qxe3 Qf6 8.gxf5 Qa1+ 9.Ke2 exf5 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 11/40 00:02:03 40107kN (Blass, Tel-Aviv 25.02.2004) Uri
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