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Subject: Re: SSDF Rating List 2004-02-25

Author: Frank Quisinsky

Date: 11:28:14 02/26/04

Go up one level in this thread


On February 26, 2004 at 13:28:03, Chessfun wrote:

>On February 26, 2004 at 08:22:51, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>
>>On February 26, 2004 at 08:02:20, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>
>>Hi Thomas,
>>
>>>On the other hand: You state in the mentioned posting that you believe that
>>>Ruffian 2.0.0 is about 50-60 Elos stronger then the version 23.06.2003 (which is the Leiden version, am I right ?)
>>
>>No!
>>Version 2.0.0 is clear stronger as the test version from 23.06.03 (not public
>>Ruffian version).
>>
>>>After the results of 2.0.0 were not as good as expected you said that it is not
>>>as strong an blitz. Later you said that it has problems with fisher time
>>>controls. And a bit later you said that maybe the Leiden version (23.06.2003 ?)
>>>is a bit stronger - because the v2.0.0 is - your words - in fact a beta version
>>>and was not tested very much. So what is correct now ?
>>
>>My comments are build from the results which I saw and my own.
>>I search the reason why users have different Ruffian results.
>>The most of the "bad" results I know from user which used ChessBase GUIs.
>>Within my first test was the Fisher time controls and the UCI Ruffian.
>>In the beta test some things in UCI mode are fixed by Per-Ola. Information can
>>be found in Arena Support Forum (longer beta test of Ruffian).
>>
>>>> I add my personal results in my forum and Arena webpages. I have no other
>>>> results.
>>>
>>>I think since the release of Ruffian 2.0.0 you should have now MANY more games -
>>>you even comment on many of the results - always with the same story that your
>>>own results show a difference... But for the conclusion in that posting -
>>>Ruffian 2.0.0 50-60 Elo stronger then Ruffian 23.06.2003 -> how many games did
>>>you have to claim that ? Just a question, not an insult of course !
>>
>>I have played in the beta test time with Ruffian 23.06.03, later with the Leiden
>>version of Ruffian. Here I have played some games, but the most with 40 moves in
>>10 minutes. I public different tournaments with Ruffian versions in the last
>>summer on Arena webpages. I test Ruffian with private collected positions too.
>>
>>I have around 500 games with Ruffian 23.06. and around 400 games with Ruffian
>>Leiden. The most are 40/10, played under Arena Chess GUI.
>>
>>>You may remember the Gandalf-story... There you also said that it is one of the
>>>best if not the best engine at all. Gandalf was strong those days and still is -
>>>but there was a difference between dreams and reality.
>>
>>At this time my CCE tourney was running.
>>I believe the biggest tournament which I ever see in WWW.
>>18 months tournament time with games in 40 moves in 40 minutes.
>>Look in the SSDF and the Gandalf results. In the time of Gandalf are Fritz 6 and
>>Junior 6 available. The first versions of Fritz 7 are not so strong later are
>>Fritz stronger. You can see the different from Gandalf to Fritz 6 and Junior 6.
>>The same differences in my CCE tournament. The SSDF tested Gandalf on slower AMD
>>systems and Gandalf need time too ... you can see it now on the faster Athlon
>>1.2 GHz systems.
>>
>>You can see ... I give of every questions an answer.
>>Maybe we can make an interview :-))
>>
>>>Besides that -> you might have read my complete posting:
>>>a) I pointed out that I still believe that Ruffian 2.0.0 is stronger then
>>>Ruffian 1.0.1
>>>b) I even defend you that it is possible that your results seem to indicate that
>>>it is way better.
>>
>>Yes, I saw it!
>>At the moment I try to find out the problem!
>>With Shredder and many games I can say more and the results can be found in
>>Arena Event Forum with log files and so on.
>>
>>>Seems that you offend everybody who tries to defend you... not very kind... it
>>>seems that you still must realize that you are a businessman in computer chess
>>>now and must live with bad and good news. I believe that some of the older heros
>>>here like Ed or Ossi can tell you much about hits bellow the belt in that
>>>business. The SSDF-Result is of course not such a hit - it's simply reality. I
>>>hope that we will not see anotherone now you forces the SSDF to take an engine
>>>off the list.
>>
>>Not interesting what you know wrote!
>>I am user of chess software and computer chess is not my World of buisiness
>>after my "Erfahrungen" in the last years.
>>
>>The SSDF results are now reality, of course yes!
>>But more interesting is to search why the Ruffian results are different.
>>This is much more important for me.
>>
>>>Greets, Thomas
>>>
>>>P.S.: And believe me, the result of Ruffian 2.0.0 will get better - so far only
>>>~ 150 games are played and only 4 opponents. It might not jump 100 Elos ahead
>>>but I have no doubts that it will end up higher then Ruffian 1.0.1...
>>
>>Ruffian 2.0.0 is in fact around 75 ELO stronger as Ruffian 1.0.5 and within I
>>believe 100 ELO stronger as Ruffian 1.0.1. Do you know the results by Patrick
>>Buchmann, Alex Schmidt and much other persons in WWW. On the machine of Wilhelm
>>Hudetz the newer Ruffian won in front of Shredder. You can find a lot of such
>>results in WWW but bad results too. Now we have to test and to find out the
>>reason for it.
>
>
>I don't believe Ruffian 2.0.0 is anything near 100 points stronger than Ruffian
>1.0.1. I don't honestly think anyone does, except maybe you.
>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=342103
>
>Sarah.

Hi Sarah,

questions (very important for me so far).
Do you test with or without ponder?

Best
Frank



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