Author: Lanny DiBartolomeo
Date: 17:29:32 12/08/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 1998 at 15:17:34, Laurence Chen wrote: >I am getting pretty tired of hearing all the praises for CM 6000 engine. And the >fact it is beating Junior 5 does not prove to be a superior engine. I believe >that the test which James Walker is a little biased towards CM, Junior is being >handicapped by having the FS mode turned on, which the default setting for >Junior would have it off. We all want a strong chess engine, no doubt, but chess >engine gets stronger with each new release, and there are plans for a new Fritz >6 sometime next year, and who knows what other new engines are being improved >with each passing year. Millenium is coming out soon, the Chess Genius family. I >don't like CM engine family because of its style or personality of playing. I >prefer a more agressive chess engine which would creates problems than a engine >which plays the board and not the man. I believe that Fritz/Junior has the >ability to "bluff", that is borrowing a poker term, these two engines have the >ability to create situations where it can have some psychological impact on the >human opponent. When Kasparov was beaten by Deep Blue, Kasparov made the comment >that Deep Blue was cheating because he could not understand why the program was >playing the way it was playing, sometimes playing wonderful moves and at the >same time playing inferior moves at other times. Well, would not this sound more >like a bluff, that is the way human opponents play against each other, at least >at the high level of chess competition. The fact that Deep Blue was able to play >like a "human being" or better using psychology, it was able to defeat Kasparov. >Deep Blue played the man and not the board and that is why it was able to defeat >Kasparov. Game 2 in the match was the turning point of the match, because >Kasparov assumed that Deep Blue was a monster in calculating moves, he assumed >that his position was lost and it was not worthy looking for a way out, now >imagine what if Kasparov were playing a human opponent, would he have resigned >to early? My guess is that were the case he would have continued playing and for >sure have found the saving move to draw. It is psychology warfare which beat >Kasparov, and Kasparov were not expecting that in the match. Ok, I deviate from >the topic heading, I thought it was important to bring this point up first. Now >let's get back to the CM and the Nunn positions. I was running a match of the >first Nunn position between CM and Fritz 5.16/Junior 5. And I was surprised by >the results, and specially by the difference of assessment of the position by >the engines. I am including the games. From these games I concluded that CM is >"boring" to watch. It plays the board and it does not seem to favour >complications, at least it seems to be misunderstand the position and its >assessment is incorrect. I prefer the style of Fritz/Junior because they both >creates problems for the opponent, and my philosophy has always been, conflict >creates growth. I would much prefer an engine which would come right out >charging like a raging bull rather than an engine which allows the opponent to >set up its plan and trying to stop or defuse the opponents intention. I was >wondering if anyone has run all Nunn Position Tests games between CM 6000 vs >Fritz/Junior, CM 6000 vs Rebel 10, CM 6000 vs MCP 8, and other engines. I find >test like Nunn positions shows the ability of the engine to solve problems, and >that is the reason why we buy chess programs, to help us lesser chessplayers to >find better understanding of a chess position, and not to find out which engine >is stronger. For the latter is quite pointless, all chess engines are equal, >some are more equal than others. > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1998.12.08"] >[Round "?"] >[White "CM 6000"] >[Black "Junior 5.0"] >[Result "0-1"] >[ECO "B33"] >[PlyCount "144"] >[EventDate "1998.??.??"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nb5 Nf6 6. N1c3 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. >Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Qf3 Be6 >15. Be2 O-O 16. O-O Ne7 17. Nf6+ Bxf6 18. Qxf6 Ng6 19. Qf3 Nf4 20. c4 Rc8 21. >Rfc1 b4 22. Nc2 Bxc4 23. Bxc4 Rxc4 24. Ne3 Rxc1+ 25. Rxc1 Kh8 26. g3 Ne6 27. >Nf5 Qf6 28. Qd3 Qg6 29. Rc4 d5 30. Rc6 a5 31. f3 Rg8 32. Kf2 Nf4 33. Qc2 Nd3+ >34. Ke2 Qxf5 35. Qxd3 Qh3 36. Qxd5 Qxh2+ 37. Kd3 Qxb2 38. g4 a4 39. Rc2 Qa1 40. >Rc1 e4+ 41. fxe4 Qf6 42. Rc6 Qf1+ 43. Kc2 Qf2+ 44. Kd3 f6 45. Qd4 Qf1+ 46. Ke3 >Qh3+ 47. Kd2 Rf8 48. Qd6 Rf7 49. Qd5 Kg7 50. Qe6 Qg2+ 51. Kc1 b3 52. axb3 a3 >53. Rc2 a2 54. Rxg2 a1=Q+ 55. Kd2 Rc7 56. Qc4 Rxc4 57. bxc4 Qb2+ 58. Kd3 Qxg2 >59. c5 Qxg4 60. Kd4 f5 61. c6 Qxe4+ 62. Kc5 f4 63. c7 f3 64. c8=Q Qc2+ 65. Kd4 >Qxc8 66. Ke3 Qh3 67. Kf2 Qg2+ 68. Ke3 f2 69. Kd4 f1=Q 70. Kc5 Qc2+ 71. Kd6 Qf6+ >72. Kd7 Qcc6# 0-1 > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1998.12.08"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Junior 5"] >[Black "CM 6000"] >[Result "0-1"] >[ECO "B33"] >[PlyCount "138"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nb5 Nf6 6. N1c3 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. >Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Nc2 O-O >15. Nce3 Be6 16. Bd3 f5 17. Qh5 e4 18. Bc2 Ne7 19. Bb3 Ng6 20. Qh3 a5 21. O-O >a4 22. Bc2 Qc8 23. Nb6 Nf4 24. Qh4 Qd8 25. Qxf4 Qxb6 26. a3 d5 27. Rad1 Rad8 >28. Rd2 Kh8 29. Rfd1 Qc5 30. Kh1 d4 31. cxd4 Rxd4 32. Re2 Rxd1+ 33. Bxd1 Rd8 >34. Qh4 Qd4 35. g3 Bc4 36. Re1 Rf8 37. Qf4 Bd3 38. Kg2 Qc5 39. Be2 Bxb2 40. >Bxd3 exd3 41. Rd1 Qxa3 42. Rd2 Bg7 43. Nd5 Qc1 44. Qe3 b4 45. Qxd3 b3 46. Rd1 >b2 47. Nb4 Rc8 48. Na2 Qc6+ 49. Kh3 Qe4 50. Qb1 a3 51. Re1 Qxb1 52. Rxb1 Bd4 >53. Kg2 Rc2 54. Kh1 Bxf2 55. Rd1 Re2 56. Rd8+ Kg7 57. Rb8 Re1+ 58. Kg2 Bd4 59. >Rb7+ Kf6 60. h4 b1=Q 61. Rxb1 Rxb1 62. g4 Rb2+ 63. Kg3 Rxa2 64. h5 Rf2 65. h6 >f4+ 66. Kh3 a2 67. g5+ Kf5 68. g6 a1=Q 69. gxh7 Qh1# 0-1 > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1998.12.08"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Fritz 5.16"] >[Black "CM 6000"] >[Result "1-0"] >[ECO "B33"] >[PlyCount "105"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nb5 Nf6 6. N1c3 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. >Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Nc2 O-O >15. Nce3 Be6 16. Bd3 f5 17. Qh5 e4 18. Bc2 Ne7 19. Bb3 Ng6 20. Qh3 a5 21. O-O-O >a4 22. Bc2 a3 23. b4 Qc8 24. Qh5 Ra6 25. f3 exf3 26. gxf3 Bxc3 27. Rhg1 Bg7 28. >Qg5 Rf7 29. Kb1 Rc6 30. h4 Bxd5 31. Rxd5 f4 32. Bf5 Qf8 33. h5 Re7 34. Nc2 Rxc2 >35. Bxc2 Ne5 36. Rxd6 Nxf3 37. Qd5+ Kh8 38. Rd8 Re8 39. Rxe8 Qxe8 40. Qxf3 h6 >41. Qd3 Qg8 42. Qf5 f3 43. Qxf3 Qf8 44. Qe4 Kg8 45. Qh7+ Kf7 46. Bb3+ Ke8 47. >Qg6+ Kd7 48. Qe6+ Kd8 49. Rd1+ Bd4 50. Rxd4+ Kc7 51. Rd7+ Kb8 52. Qb6+ Kc8 53. >Qb7# 1-0 > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1998.12.08"] >[Round "?"] >[White "CM 6000"] >[Black "Fritz 5.16"] >[Result "1/2-1/2"] >[ECO "B33"] >[PlyCount "99"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nb5 Nf6 6. N1c3 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. >Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Qf3 Be6 >15. Be2 Bxd5 16. Qxd5 Ne7 17. Qd2 d5 18. O-O Rg8 19. Nc2 Qd7 20. Rfe1 Rd8 21. >Rad1 Qd6 22. Bh5 Kf8 23. Qd3 f5 24. Qh3 Qh6 25. Rd3 Rd6 26. Ne3 Qg5 27. f4 Qxf4 >28. Nxf5 Nxf5 29. Rf3 Qd2 30. Re2 Qc1+ 31. Rf1 Qxf1+ 32. Kxf1 Ne7 33. Qe3 Bf6 >34. Qa7 Rc6 35. Qd7 e4 36. Rf2 Kg7 37. Bd1 b4 38. Ba4 Rb6 39. c4 dxc4 40. Qc7 >e3 41. Rf3 Re6 42. Qxc4 Re5 43. Qxb4 e2+ 44. Ke1 Rc8 45. Rg3+ Kh8 46. Rc3 Rf8 >47. Rf3 Rc8 48. Rc3 Rf8 49. Rf3 Rc8 50. Rc3 1/2-1/2 > >~ Erudito What!!? CM engines are also improving, and How can you say it doesnt caUSE PROBLEMS OVER THE BOARD! It is one of the best engines to play against and it is EXTREMELY tactically strong! That is and what has been known of the cm family/ King engines!!
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