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Subject: Re: Note: Number of rounds will be 11 in any case!

Author: Gerd Isenberg

Date: 23:18:27 03/01/04

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On March 01, 2004 at 18:22:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On March 01, 2004 at 15:41:04, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>
>>On March 01, 2004 at 10:07:17, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On February 29, 2004 at 21:49:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>The tournament format for WCCC that was originally decided was:
>>>>
>>>>--------
>>>>http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/icga/news/events/Israel/event.html
>>>>
>>>>The format for the 12th World Computer Chess Championship WCCC2004 will be:
>>>>5-round Swiss, after which the top 4 + 4 teams get to play a 2-round elimination
>>>>at each stage, and the bottom teams continue to compete for the 9th spot playing
>>>>a 6-round Swiss.
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>However, since a large number of amateur programmers expressed their disapproval
>>>>of this system, we have decided to change the format so that it will attract the
>>>>largest number of programmers. Currently the two options are:
>>>>
>>>>A) Like the original format, but with re-entry:
>>>>
>>>>Divide the participants into two groups. Conduct 5 rounds Swiss, and top 4 from
>>>>each group (total of 8) will qualify for next stage, which will be a knockout (2
>>>>rounds quarter-final, 2 rounds semi-final, 2 rounds final). The other programs
>>>>will continue with 6 more Swiss rounds. However, the *difference* is: the losers
>>>>in the knockout will join the other programs (who haven't qualified for knockout
>>>>phase) in continuing with additional Swiss rounds (with all the points they
>>>>scored in the first 5 rounds and in the knockout phase).
>>>>
>>>>The advantage of this method over the original one is that the amateurs will get
>>>>more chances of playing against commercial programs after the first 5 rounds.
>>>>
>>>>B) 11 rounds Swiss.
>>>>
>>>>In Graz WCCC everything was basically over after 7 rounds. The last 4 rounds
>>>>didn't change anything at all. That is the reason why we are trying to choose a
>>>>more exciting format.
>>>>
>>>>However, our primary goal is maximizing participation. So, if 11 rounds Swiss
>>>>will attract the largest number of participants, then we will opt for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We are interested in hearing your opinion, especially the opinion of programmers
>>>>who are considering participation in WCCC.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Omid David Tabibi (davoudo@cs.biu.ac.il),
>>>>Bar-Ilan University.
>>>
>>>The question is not about the number of rounds; that will be 11 in any case (in
>>>9 days). The question is how to use those 11 rounds (in such a way that everyone
>>>plays exactly 11 rounds).
>>>
>>>Currently we have two options:
>>>
>>>A) Original knockout format with re-entry (described above)
>>>
>>>B) 11 rounds Swiss
>>>
>>>Which of these two options you prefer, A or B?
>>
>>If the number of participanst is about 16...
>>
>>What about following slightly modified B) variation, a kind of "delayed" swiss
>>system to keep the tension a bit longer?
>>
>>For the first (4-6) rounds playing swiss with two about equal strong groups with
>>about (even) quantity and quality, eg.
>>(1,4,5,8,9,12,13,16)<->(2,3,6,7,10,11,14,15) or similar.
>>
>>Then reunion both groups and continue with standard swiss, and there are still
>>some thrilling rounds to go.
>
>I would only favour such a system when you can give me written garantuee that i
>am NOT in the shredder group.
>
>I ended divided 5th last 2 years. I fear when Tim Foden is not there, that i for
>sure will be placed 5th and end up in the same group like Shredder.
>
>Shredder is like a sure zero for me.
>
>Against Fritz with white i can at least at least draw (didn't lose much with
>white against fritz last years) so i just need white against fritz. In world
>champs 2003 i still got a good position against fritz with black (fritz started
>to really do stupid moves) then of course diep decided it was time for madness
>and played Nb4?? and was directly lost. Fritz played 2 good moves and it was
>game over.
>
>So i have at least the illusion that i make a chance against Fritz. it's using
>simple knowledge but very well debugged. Shredder is different level simply
>IMHO. More knowledge, so you can't fool it simply. It just basically makes 1
>mistake and that that it's forward pruning too much. I welcome the day that
>shredder searches 30 ply in middlegame :)
>
>I hope you realize what i mean. Who gets into group A or B?
>
>I want in group B when Shredder is in A.
>
>Junior or Fritz in B, i don't care for it. Please do.
>
>Hydra, please do i fought against fundamentalistic arabs in grammar school i'll
>fight 'em again, 1 head or 8 it doesn't matter :)
>
>From a huge distance i  smell that division in groups A and B will be
>
>A: 1,3,5,7...  Shredder, Junior, DIEP, ???
>B: 2,4,6,8...  Fritz, Hydra, Falcon, MOVEI
>
>Being divided 5th last 2 years i fear that will be group A with Shredder.
>
>Playing 2 times against Shredder in 1 tournament is just too much :)

That's not what i mean, you can't play an opponent twice. A "normal" 11-round
swiss with some "restictions" during the first rounds to delay some hot matches
between favorites in initial disjoint groups.

Because the Graz event was basically over after 7 rounds...



>
>You see i would prefer group B any time of the day.
>
>>Cheers,
>>Gerd



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