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Subject: Re: Tournament Format for WCCC 2004, 11 rounds Swiss - standard or delayed?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 12:18:46 03/02/04

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On March 02, 2004 at 14:22:35, Gerd Isenberg wrote:

I feel the basic point made is that swiss pairing is already a very complicated
way to do pairing. Pair first 3 rounds upon seeding and rounds 3..11 upon sum of
opponents (buchholz in german called or weerstandspunten in dutch).

The swiss rules are so very complicated already and take *so many* fair
considerations into account that it is very complicated to write a correct
pairing swiss program. It's more difficult than writing a perfect mate solver
that solves all mates up to 20 moves at current hardware.

>On March 02, 2004 at 09:53:15, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>Based on the feedback to the previous thread
>>(http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?352100), it seems that the majority
>>prefer 11 rounds Swiss to the knockout with reentry option.
>>
>>Gerd Isenberg suggested an interesting modification to standard Swiss:
>>
>>--------
>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?352264
>>
>>What about following slightly modified [Swiss system], a kind of "delayed" swiss
>>system to keep the tension a bit longer?
>>
>>For the first (4-6) rounds playing swiss with two about equal strong groups with
>>about (even) quantity and quality, eg.
>>(1,4,5,8,9,12,13,16)<->(2,3,6,7,10,11,14,15) or similar.
>>
>>Then reunion both groups and continue with standard swiss, and there are still
>>some thrilling rounds to go.
>>--------
>>
>>In other words, a simple 11 rounds Swiss, but keeping some stronger pairings for
>>the later rounds.
>>
>>What do you think would be better? Standard 11 rounds Swiss (like in Graz WCCC),
>>or the delayed Swiss as suggested by Gerd?
>
>Obviously there are some practical considerations, as Vincent pointed out.
>One problem might be the initial ranking (even in the lower part of the field),
>the other problem is whether a pairing program is able to handle such pairing
>restrictions during the first m of 11 rounds.
>
>Next problem is to determine the "optimal" m, the number of rounds with disjoint
>groups, to delay important matches - or whether it introduces more dependencies
>as suggested. And as already mentioned, all is dependent on the number of
>participants N.
>
>If N is 16, both groups are even (8) and there is no group internal "by".
>Then m == 7 is the maximum because it's already group internal round robin.
>If N is not divisable by four it becomes complicated, odd/even groups, one or
>two internal "by" (in case of two they may play each other as an other
>exception).
>
>Seems all too complicated and probably exhausting for the TD ;-)
>Anyway, thanks for considering the idea.
>
>I strongly consider to participate, independent on delayed or classical swiss
>system.
>
>Regards,
>Gerd



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