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Subject: Re: Ironic? A bitter truth!

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 09:07:04 03/03/04

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On March 03, 2004 at 08:33:57, Albert Silver wrote:

>
>>>I think you missed his point Rolf. Johann was saying that although it is
>>>perfectly possible to do the competition on the Internet, just like one could
>>>theoretically celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas only online as well, it isn't
>>>the same experience as doing it live.
>>>
>>>                                          Albert
>>
>>
>>That is still apples/oranges.
>>
>>A tournament is first about the games,  and that is just as effective over the
>>net as it is in person,
>>
>>Holidays are first about getting together with family.
>>
>>The "irony" is non-existent IMHO
>
>Another story altogether. I merely noted that Johan commented on the interest of
>going there and being there, and Rolf addressed men's stupidity, which was
>Hull's and your comment, not Johan's. As to the participation level, I do agree
>that the more the merrier, and for this reason I find it really a pity that
>there is this 'obligation' to be there. As you point out, the purpose of this
>even is to come out with a World Champion. The rest (meeting people, etc.),
>however pleasant, is a perk. I will add that there are many cases of the program
>AND the hardware being elsewhere, so even the whole 'see the source code' is a
>non-argument in my opinion. Unless you were actually lugging a full Cray when
>you won in 1984. All I could say in that case is that you're a *LOT* stronger
>than you seem.... and yeah, I've seen pictures of those monsters. :-)
>
>                                        Albert


Albert,
you got it all wrong again. First of all you miss that we have a charta here
that we want to respect. So for example it wasn't possible for me to express the
truth in direct wording. I had to use smart mode. But then you misread and
interprete something into my message that wasn't there.

With Bob I agree that Johann, please with all due respect for this legendary
chessprogrammer, has no concrete irony in his message. In this topic he's simply
on the wrong track for long. He's following this nonsense (at least that should
be possible to express) of the insinuation that Bob might have secret motives
for his absence in the last several Wchs. But Johann has no idea about the
academic duties. If you go back into the debates after Graz, it was Amir in
special and Johann, both the only ones, please note that, who insinuated that
Bob might simply chicken out because he had not exactly zero but at least little
chances to win something. But this is almost insultive for this man who has
attended almost all tournaments in the past till Cologne, Germany in 1986. He's
one dinosaur, certainly more important and succesful than Johann or Amir. Bob is
a scientist and he was at the real front-line of computerchess. He worked with
the big Irons. All these software geniusses like Stefan, Frans or Amir did NEVER
even try to master one of these big machines. And now comes Johann, doing some
extra-terrestric hobbies on computerchess Wch since long, and he he is implying
that Bob might abstain because he were without chances. Openly and abusively he
is implying that the reason Bob is giving, his responsibility for his classes,
is invented, exaggerated or used as a false excuse. However all this is
nonsense.

In his latest contribution Johann now was completely wrong with his attempt to
be ironic, because his data was simply false. To compare Thanksgiving Day with
these rather triste beer drinking communions on computerchess events and to
insinuate that then BOTH could be held on the net if Bob wanted by all means,
this is NOT irony, it is crap. Because you cannot eat via internet but you can
well play chess. The whole social aspect of such a competitive event is also
ridiculous if you look how that worked in Graz. Graz is really the end of all
correct live computerchess events with a violation of all standards and styles.
And although one could talk in direct mode - LIVE! - it was exactly this
communication that failed to function in Graz. Just because the TD couldn't
listen and so misunderstood what really was going on. This is scandalous.

So it is rather comical, but in the unintended direction, that the
socio-psychological aspect that should be so important was misused for unallowed
manipulations of a chess game. We can sum up what happened with the clear
statement that someone cheated the chess rules because he wanted to help the
opponent to come into the final tie. He threw a drawn game! This is an
incredible misbehaviour. And although many participants, among them Amir, who
published the details on ChessBase.com, kept silent and so tolerated the wrong
TD decisions. This is an incredible violation of chess dignity.

It is beyond my understanding why people can make propaganda for such a mode
with so many violations, see also the manner of the exclusion of Fritz Reul and
the contacts via telephone.

The future lies in tournaments like the CCT6, which Bob won, as you know. Bob
was again on some bigger machine and could well adapt his engine for such a big
Iron. Nobody else in the circus can do that as good as Bob. And therefore I find
it somewhat disrespectful how Johann is trying to take Bob for a ride. Of course
he failed to succeed. It should be allowed to point this out.

Rolf



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