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Subject: Re: Move order %

Author: Andreas Guettinger

Date: 10:22:41 03/04/04

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On March 04, 2004 at 08:41:38, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 04, 2004 at 08:35:04, Andrew Wagner wrote:
>
>>Once again, you guys have provided a ton of useful info. Thanks so much!
>>
>>First of all, I have to apologize - I forgot to mention that I do use a history
>>heuristic table. Just a very simple one...if a move fails high, I increment
>>history(square.source, square.dest). Then I add the MVV/LA score if it's a
>>capturing move, and sort by the sum of those two. I had hash tables, aspiration
>>windows, and null-move, but I took them out to seek if I could get my move order
>>% up without them.
>>
>>As far as  killer moves, what usually defines them? I haven't read much about
>>them.
>>
>>And with reference to Andreas' comment, do most of you agree? It makes sense to
>>me that if both move order % and nps are low, it could be something in
>>quiescence. What do you guys suggest I look at first?
>>
>>Thanks a ton for your help! Andrew
>
>I suggest that you do not care about nps now.

What I wanted to say is that better move ordering will not fix low NPS.

If you are sure you do it reasonably, I agree with you. I meant if the NPS are
_very_ low, you might have the suspicion that something is wrong. You should at
least receive a NPS similar to crafty, because not much eval is slowing you down
etc.

Let me give an example:
In my very first search I got around 35KNPS (simple material counting eval), and
I new something was wrong. It was just a first try, and for qsearch I generated
all moves and then threw everything out that was not a capture. A very
inefficient way to do it, but it was just a test. :)
I then wrote a routine that only generates captures and got 300 kNPS. My qsearch
was slowing me down terribly, and when I fixed that I was happy.


>
>order of moves seems to be your main problem.
>

Order of moves is the main bottleneck for the search going deep quickly, I
agree. But better move ordering will reduce the NPS, unlikely increase it,
because sophistic ordering hast a cost.

regards
Andy


>from more nps you get only linear improvement but from better order of moves you
>can get exponential improvement.
>
>Uri
>Uri



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