Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 08:40:09 03/05/04
Go up one level in this thread
On March 05, 2004 at 09:51:56, Bob Durrett wrote: >On March 05, 2004 at 08:55:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On March 05, 2004 at 08:49:14, Albert Silver wrote: >> >>Please ask SSDF at what hardware they *really* test, not what is put in the >>list. And/or whether they use time compensation. >> >>I really like to see all games they play and like to be able to see the moves >>played there show up at the screen here too. That is something SSDF can easily >>provide (only count for their rating list games that get published) and should >>do to start with to get more credibility. > >If they were to provide ALL the games ever played by SSDF, the amount of data >would be completely unmanageable. Who would have the time to look at them? > >Bob D. Many who are involved collects and checks out *all* games currently. This is like posting that formula 1 drivers do not check out the presentation of the other teams and how it is compared to theirs. >> >>How can you test things without having the games? >> >>There is just 1 tester who publishes games AFAIK. >> >>>On March 05, 2004 at 08:37:51, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On March 05, 2004 at 08:23:30, Albert Silver wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 05, 2004 at 03:54:57, Afzal Siddique wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105063596 >>>>>> >>>>>>Afzal >>>>> >>>>>I take it that this accusation can be substantiated? >>>>> >>>>>"DIEP is not at SSDF because i refused to pay them. it is a paid list. When you >>>>>do not ship them a computer or 2 (say $10000) you cannot join in that list in >>>>>such a way that they directly test your program. Instead they wait then till >>>>>there is newer books from other programs that can kill you. I refused to do >>>>>that. I would say now to Karlsson (head of the list) who asked me those 2 >>>>>computers: "You are a surgeon, you can pay for your own hardware"." >>>> >>>>When i asked a few years ago whether i could put diep at SSDF, >>>>Karlsson shipped me email that he could only garantuee diep to be quickly on the >>>>list if i would ship him a computer or 2. "As we are in big lack of hardware". I >>>>then heard from someone else he is a surgeon. >>>> >>>>>The following comment also needs a bit of clarifiying: >>>>> >>>>>"Further there gets used a lot of tricks in SSDF. The protocol to play other >>>>>programs has a 100 tricks in order to fool you. >>>>> >>>>>Example if you play single cpu with an UCI engine against fritz8 at a single >>>>>cpu, it will eat 80% system time on average versus your engine 20%." >>>> >>>>All these tricks are there. Just try it yourself and measure. >>>> >>>>>The way it is phrased, one could easily end up thinking the SSDF actually uses >>>>>single CPUs to play the matches, as opposed to two separate computers. >>>> >>>>I'm sure they play basically single computer now. Either that can have 2 >>>>processors or 1. >>> >>>The hardware announced is an Athlon 1200 as you know, with 128 MB Ram. So you're >>>saying they use a Dual Athlon 1200 with 256 MB Ram, or that they are running >>>both programs on a single Athlon 1200. It goes without saying that you should >>>easily be able to test this with the games that have been published. I'm sure >>>that when you say you're sure, it is because you tested this and these are the >>>results of your findings. You wouldn't want to be guilty of calumny after all. >>> >>>It also goes without saying that on a single computer the whole issue of the >>>Chessbase auto232 protocol is removed, since the protocol would not be used at >>>all. >>> >>>> >>>>>I mean, you'd think that all UCI engines were immediately condemned, instead of >>>>>the no. 1 in the SSDF list actually being a UCI version of an engine as is the >>>>>case. >>>> >>>>Shredder interface has its own tricks. Sorry features. >>> >>>Such as? >>> >>>>In general less than chessbase but he has little choice of course. >>>> >>>>I do not know how SSDF tests shredder, whether they use the native shredder book >>>>in shredderclassic or shredderbook in fritz + uci engine. >>>> >>>>In the latter game it would get toasted as it would get 1 MB hashtables. >>>> >>>>If not then chessbase has given order to not trick shredder with the 1MB trick. >>> >>>Order? What order? To whom? >>> >>>>I did not test that latter. Perhaps some can try here. It's interesting to know >>>>the motivation and tricks applied by chessbase. I try to keep updated. >>>> >>>>For now there is just too many tricks. And majority we cannot check even, >>>>because the games are not there. >>> >>>I'm not sure I understand. Are you claiming the tricks only happen in the >>>unpublished games. I would have thought that the tricks you are complaining >>>about would appear in all games, and not just the unpublished ones, so that you >>>could easily check the game you have available. As an aside, I do agree all >>>games should be made available for public scrutiny. >>> >>> Albert
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