Author: Anson T J
Date: 02:12:49 03/11/04
Go up one level in this thread
On March 10, 2004 at 18:27:20, Anson T J wrote: >On March 10, 2004 at 17:52:59, Louis Fagliano wrote: > >>On March 10, 2004 at 16:12:51, Anson T J wrote: >> >>>On March 10, 2004 at 15:53:36, Louis Fagliano wrote: >>> >>>>Is there something wrong with Shredder’s book in game 26? Look at the game (now >>>>in progress at the time of this posting). Why did it open up with 1. e4 e6 2. >>>>Qe2 c5 3. g3 Nc6 4. Nf3 g6 5. d3 Bg7 6. h4? A rather bizarre opening that gives >>>>White less than nothing. It was out of book by move 5. d3. Is Shredder book >>>>accidentally set on a wide variety or“fun” level or even accidentally turned >>>>off? >>> >>>I assure you both books are on their strongest settings. On round 18, Junior >>>playing black got a nice position playing the french defence. Shredder managed >>>to draw but perhaps learnt not to play mainline French as white so went for 2. >>>Qe2 this time around. It had a probability of 27.2. >>> >>>The rest of the moves are just the top lines in the Shredder8 book. >>> >>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ansonwilliams/chess/junior8test/shredder8book.jpg >>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ansonwilliams/chess/junior8test/shredder8book2.jpg >>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ansonwilliams/chess/junior8test/round19.jpg >>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ansonwilliams/chess/junior8test/round20.jpg >> >>There seems to be a problem with how some of these programs "learn". You said >>that "On Round 18, Junior, playing Black, got a nice position playing the French >>Defence", and now when I look at Shredder's learned adjustments it is now NEVER >>going to play 2. d4 after 1. e4 e6. That's ridiculous. Whatever nice position >>Junior got playing the French, 2. d4, could not possibly be the cause for >>defeat! It's probably something around moves 10-18 or so that White played >>something inferior. 2. d4 is not most certainly not a mistake in the French! >> >>I noticed this among all ChessBase playing programs in the CB GUI. Whenever >>they win or lose and "learning" is enabled, they pick the first or second move >>of the game to "adjust". For example, if any ChessBase playing program loses as >>White in the Ruy Lopez, it will cease playing 1. e4(!) >> >>Something is wrong here. The ChessBase playing program should be looking much >>further down the road in it's book, starting with the last book move and working >>backward looking for suspected inferior book moves. This doesn't seem to >>happen. Anyone else notice that? > >Its not as bad as you think. The deeper moves are penalized more than the ones >at the root. Given enough "French" Shredder will return to 2. d4! If the book >maker didn't want shredder to play 2. d3 and 2. Qe2 ?! then those moves >shouldn't be tournament moves. Shredder defeats Junior's French in round 28 with 2. Nc3. Now in round 29, Junior is playing a variation of the French as white. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ansonwilliams/chess/junior8test/ I do agree that the Chessbase book management system is too weak. The books themselves are okay but the user isn't given many options to utilise them well. I think we should be able to set how much the percentage sucess counts and how much the frequency of play counts. I believe that the frequency plays too big a part in the selection of move. The match is still very close and it seems Junior is fighting hard to maintain its unbeaten record in my tests.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.