Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 05:00:29 03/17/04
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On March 17, 2004 at 04:07:12, Bas Hamstra wrote: This endgame is dead won. A few years ago i indepth analysed it. Black has *nothing*. But the evaluation problem is indeed this position and a bit further. If you do a deep search from here you will see it is a win for white. I'm sure the GM in question missed this line unless world top, but would he have seen it he would have played Rxe6 only faster :) Probably he/she saw: rxe6 qxe6 re1 qd6 bf4 f5 qh3 qxf4 qxh7+ kf6 bxd5 nd8 ne5 and now black can do nothing but the mate is still a number of checks to go. So if diep nullmoves here it will find the checks still in qsearch and find the mate. Crafty needs another 10 ply here i guess :) I'm sure crafty & co are missing the above line. Diep sees this line at around 8-10 ply already using some extensions (singular), but it currently has problems seeing directly the endgame is won after the line with qe6-f5 x f5. That's why it doesn't find Rxe6 instantly. Corbit should claim less and implement checks in crafty. >On March 17, 2004 at 03:59:16, Joachim Rang wrote: > >>On March 16, 2004 at 18:58:46, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>See this thread: >>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?354948 >> >>wait, wait... >> >>The continuation Rxf6 Qxf6 Re1 Qf5 Qxf5 gxf5 Bxd5 leads to a better endgame for >>white. If a GM tells me, that this endgame is won for white I believe him right >>away. >> >>If engines prefer Qh3 instead because they believe in the attacking chances of >>white, it is not convincing for me. King Safety is known to be a heuristic and >>even speculative evaluation feature, so a big value for Qh3 proves nothing. >>Where are the continuations which lead to a forced win for white after Qh3? >> >>Although Shredder 8 agrees with most programs and prefers Qh3 I don't think this >>is a prove that this move is better. If one looks at the PV there is no forced >>win in sight. >> >>The additional analysis which shows better defense of black after Rxe6 shows >>only, that Rxe6 is not a crushing attack but converts whites advantage in a won >>endgame. >> >>regards Joachim >> >>P.S.: Two concrete questions: >>1.) Is this position not won for white? >> >>[D] 2r1r3/p3bk1p/1pn2p1B/3n1p2/3P4/PB3N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 4 >> >>2.) How can white win after Qh3? > >Interesting discussion and analysis guys. And I couldn't agree more with your >well put points, Joachim. I guess we need a real GM to settle this. > > >Bas.
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