Author: Uri Blass
Date: 05:21:58 03/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On March 17, 2004 at 08:03:33, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>On March 17, 2004 at 04:19:01, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On March 17, 2004 at 04:07:12, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>On March 17, 2004 at 03:59:16, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 16, 2004 at 18:58:46, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>See this thread:
>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?354948
>>>>
>>>>wait, wait...
>>>>
>>>>The continuation Rxf6 Qxf6 Re1 Qf5 Qxf5 gxf5 Bxd5 leads to a better endgame for
>>>>white. If a GM tells me, that this endgame is won for white I believe him right
>>>>away.
>>>>
>>>>If engines prefer Qh3 instead because they believe in the attacking chances of
>>>>white, it is not convincing for me. King Safety is known to be a heuristic and
>>>>even speculative evaluation feature, so a big value for Qh3 proves nothing.
>>>>Where are the continuations which lead to a forced win for white after Qh3?
>>>>
>>>>Although Shredder 8 agrees with most programs and prefers Qh3 I don't think this
>>>>is a prove that this move is better. If one looks at the PV there is no forced
>>>>win in sight.
>>>>
>>>>The additional analysis which shows better defense of black after Rxe6 shows
>>>>only, that Rxe6 is not a crushing attack but converts whites advantage in a won
>>>>endgame.
>>>>
>>>>regards Joachim
>>>>
>>>>P.S.: Two concrete questions:
>>>>1.) Is this position not won for white?
>>>>
>>>>[D] 2r1r3/p3bk1p/1pn2p1B/3n1p2/3P4/PB3N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 4
>>>>
>>>>2.) How can white win after Qh3?
>>>
>>>Interesting discussion and analysis guys. And I couldn't agree more with your
>>>well put points, Joachim. I guess we need a real GM to settle this.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bas.
>>
>>
>>This is the position white can force after Rxe6
>>
>>[D] 2r1r3/p3b2p/1pn2pkB/3B1p2/3P4/P4N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 5
>>
>>Some strong player should analyze if this endgame is won or only better for
>>white.
>>
>>Maybe Qh3 wins also, Shredder 8 gives it a +1.98 on depth 23 after 8 hours on
>>Athlon 1500 MHz. The PV looks like:
>>
>> 1. Qh3 Rh8 2. Re4 Rc7 3. Rde1 Nd8 4. Nd2 f5 5. Re5 Bf6
>>6. Nc4 Qc6 7. R5e2 Bxd4 8. Qh4 Kg8 {1.98/23}
>
>Rxe6 is a very easy win. Qh3 a long struggle.
>
>Shredder is tactical very weak.
Shredder got depth 23 and searched for 8 hours.
It is almost sure that it simply evaluated the endgame after Rxe6 as worse than
1.Qh3 and the same for other programs
Shredder was not the only program that was used for hours and could not find it
because it evaluated 1.Qh3 as better.
You should stop saying bad things about other with no evidence.
Uri
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