Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: BS 2830 Problem #5 is wrong(no proof for it).

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 10:53:45 03/17/04

Go up one level in this thread


On March 17, 2004 at 04:21:19, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 16, 2004 at 18:58:46, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>See this thread:
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?354948
>
>First I think that you are wrong when you analyze the original game because the
>original game is not relevant and it is obvious that the game is full of
>blunders.
>
>The only question is if the first move is correct or wrong.
>
>Rxe6 Qxe6 Re1 is leading to a clear advantage for white and the only question is
>if there is better alternative.
>
>Here is some analysis with yace with slow P850
>I analyzed leafs of this logical tree and also one no leaf(1.Rxe6 Qxe6 2.Re1 f5
>3.Qg3 when 3...Qxe1+ was not suggested by yace when I took move back)
>
>It seems that black has no alternative and yace can learn a score of 1.21 pawns
>for white for the root position after 1.Rxe6
>
>The question is if yace can learn a bigger score for white after a different
>move.
>
>[Event "?"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "????.??.??"]
>[Round "?"]
>[White "New game"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "*"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>[FEN "2r1r3/p3bk1p/1pnqpppB/3n4/3P2Q1/PB3N2/1P3PPP/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1"]
>[PlyCount "8"]
>
>1. Rxe6 Qxe6 2. Re1 Qf5 (2... f5 3. Qg3 Qxe1+ 4. Nxe1) (2... Qd6 3. Bf4 h5 4.
>Qxc8 Rxc8 5. Bxd6 Bxd6 6. Bxd5+) 3. Qxf5 gxf5 4. Bxd5+ Kg6 *
>
>
>New game
>2r1r3/p3b2p/1pn2pkB/3B1p2/3P4/P4N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace Paderborn:
>
>5.Bc1 Nb8 6.Nh4+ Kg7 7.Nxf5+ Kg6 8.Be4 Bb4 9.Ne7+ Kg7 10.Nxc8 Bxe1 11.Nd6 Re6
>12.Bf4
>  ±  (1.40)   Depth: 11/42   00:01:51  58455kN
>
>
>New game
>2r5/p4k2/1pnb1pp1/3B3p/3P4/P4N2/1P3PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace Paderborn:
>
>6...Kg7 7.g3 Ne7 8.Bb3 b5 9.Be6 Rc2 10.b4 a6 11.Kg2
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 13/34   00:01:30  36426kN
>
>
>New game
>2r1r3/p3bk1p/1pn3pB/3n1p2/3P4/PB4Q1/1P3PPP/4N1K1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace Paderborn:
>
>4...Red8 5.Qd3 Bf6 6.Nf3 Ke7 7.Qb5 Ke6
>  ±  (1.38)   Depth: 11/35   00:01:42  46375kN
>
>
>New game
>2r1r3/p3bk1p/1pn1q1pB/3n1p2/3P4/PB3NQ1/1P3PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace Paderborn:
>3...b5 4.Rxe6 Kxe6 5.Kf1 Red8 6.Ng5+ Bxg5 7.Bxg5 Rd7 8.Qd3 a6 9.Qe3+ Kd6 10.Qg3+
>  ±  (1.33)   Depth: 11/41   00:04:16  118116kN

I agree that there is a small advantage after Rxe6.
However, all the analysis I have seen shows a bigger advantage for the queen
move.
It is not clear that Rxe6 is the best move.  Therefore, the position is wrong.
Either that or we must:
1.  Prove that Rxe6 leads to a won game and Qh3 does not.
2.  Allow a new solution and discard old results that discount that solution.

The only counter argument I have seen against Qh3 is hand-waiving.  Nobody has
shown any reason at all why Rxe6 ought to be better.  Computer analysis all
shows it to be worse.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.