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Subject: Re: Investigation of women .

Author: Oliver Y.

Date: 02:24:48 12/11/98

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On December 10, 1998 at 18:41:18, Fernando Villegas wrote:

>Hi:
>In fact i remember I have seen, two or three times, post made by women, very
>short all of them ,juts demanding  some information. Then they vannished.

The above is helpful to know.  However, the rest needs some comment.

>This is an old discussion and the first time we did it here i was flamed >because I dared to say that, according to some studies, women mind is -in >average- not fitted to this kind of intelectual endeavour, I mean, >concentrated, logical, obsesive kind of intelection oriented towards abstract >problems.

Hmmm, I assume you were flamed by men, maybe a different approach would evoke
a better response....naaaaaah....but the concept of fitness or suitability is
the loaded term.  I recall in the 80's few substantial differences could be
found, and the jury must have returned since then.  Any academics out there able
to help out?

Is being fitted a factual or value based assertion?  From a
socio-biological-evolutionary perspective, what incentive do women have to play
or endorse an activity such as chess?  I was blessed with a girlfriend who was
very happy to see me gleeful as a kid when I played chess.  I am sorry to hear
the other members experience otherwise...albeit they are probably more firmly
entrenched in their domesitication...

1.  Cultural, sociological, and related reasons explain the lack of incentive to
develop chess skills...

2. It is observed that the standard deviation in measurements of g
(intelligence) is  higher in the male subpopulation.  This may serve to
reinforce the effects stated in 1, assuming one accepts the results or
meaningfulness of such testing...

3.  Here is a point that is worth more than "my 2 cents" worth:  I have an uncle
who is a world reknown neurophysiologist.  He stated long ago that he is firm in
his emphatic opinion that there is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in women's native
ability or potential to excel in chess or any related activity.

>I do not
>evaluate that as bad or good; you can define intelligence as you wish and so
>declare women or men more intelligent than the other side. But it is a matter of
>fact that not only in chess computers but in almost any intelectual enterprise
>where abstract reasonning and long and painful research and thinking is needed,
>women almost disappear from the scenary.  Just take a look at math and physics
>departments, ingeniering, etc in any unversity of the world, not to say the list
>of the really eminent scientifics and philosophers.

Numbers 1. and 2. refute this embarrassing assertion.
CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION, remember?

> Yes, this is an old
>argument, but gravitation law is old also and still valid as far as I know.

Another fallacy, I know you are more intelligent than to seriously consider
this, and I assume that you are in the mode of small talk.

Are you to suggest that all old arguments are valid, since the law of
gravitation is valid?  I believe that we have a duty to edify, or at least do no
harm with whatever we say.  A little care before opining without personal
attacks would go a long way.  Hmmm, should I prefer the contempt for a draw
features of Chessmaster Human Tester I, or Chessmaster Human Tester II?  I'll
buy both!  Perhaps we also have an obligation to entertain, and I must
compliment Mr. Slug on doing more than his fair share of bringing me back here!

>On the contrary, where intelectual endeavour is oriented more to imagination >and fantasy, as writting, differences is not existent or minimal.
>Of course there is room to exceptions and of course we can evaluate this fact >in the most politicaly correct way. You always can say that women are smarter
>precisely because they does not do this or that. In fact, today there are "kind
>of intelligences" for all tastes. Pick what you like.

I believe rigorous objectivity is superior to political correctness any day, not
that we are debating choosing between the two.  Nor is relativism particularly
useful (pick what you like).

Does anyone recall how the concept of shareware was invented?
Use the same techniques to speculate how we could bring women, just as they are
in their current perfection, into a modified chess arena.  This may well require
a variant on our 'perfect' game.

I purposely leave this above comment open to the members' imaginations--who
wants all the answers provided for them?

See what I mean by edification?

BTW, so I don't get flamed, if you want to know more about my uncle, just ask.
I'm too modest for these types of things...what with all you brainiacs in this
club!

Oliver

>Fernando



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