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Subject: Re: reason was: Java support missing (or malfunctioning?)

Author: Mridul Muralidharan

Date: 11:41:32 03/22/04

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On March 22, 2004 at 11:22:37, Peter Skinner wrote:

>On March 22, 2004 at 08:03:22, Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>
>>Yes , this is still available from Microsoft site - but they were forced to >stop furthur development on this and shipping of non-compliant versions.
>
>I can not find it _anywhere_ on the MS site. I have even done a search for it.
>I believe they removed it.
>


Hmm , I can get you the link from office - I dont have it here at home.
Since one of the components of my previous product was also certified to run on
m$ vm , we had a url from where to download these vm's .....

>>Sun release used to be a reference implementation - more like a proof of
>>concept. Ofcourse , once the JIT versions from 1.3 came up , they are much much
>>better.
>>
>>>Run two identical computers side by side and have one use the Sun release and
>>>the other use the MS release, and the MS release wins hands down.
>>>
>>
>>You are comparing something that is running java 1.1 and running 1.4 ???
>>What is the point of comparing different versions ?
>
>I am comparing the speed of the two versions. 1.4 is drastically slower.
>


In computer chess terms (though not exactly similar) , you are comparing the nps
of fritz 5 w.r.t fritz 8.
fritz 8 is going to be slower , but plays a better game.

Similarly , 1.4 supports much more richer feature set and is designed to run on
a diverse et of platforms.

Another thing I want to mention is , the amount of time and money that can be
spent on optimising the VM for a particular platform - that too a non-sun
platform is going to be less.
This is a reference implementation VM , which means more like a proof of concept
that a VM can be implemented under the specified spec and supproting the
required minimum feature set.
The VM code is not going to be much optimised for a single platform since the
task of supporting upwards of say 10 different platforms is non-trivial.
So the vendors will be able to come up with much better and platform targetted
VM's by exploiting the native platform better.
Example : the old microsoft vm on windows and the ibm vm.

Specialised VM's for a particular platform (like windows under x86) is going to
be much more simpler task for optimisation than optimising a generic code base
which works across a vast set of platforms.


>>>So far I am not losing out on anything. I have Java installed, and I don't have
>>>any concerns. Lawyers can file all the papers they want, I am still going to use
>>>the free software I want to use.. _no one_ can tell me differently.
>>>
>>
>>You can create viruses in your comp - and no one will tell you anything unless
>>you release them too :)
>>Forgetting that , you will ermain locked in to a older implementation , which is
>>not compliant with any of the newer specs.
>>Pretty soon , you wont have most of the available functionality available.
>>Most applet developers continue to support 1.1 which is why , you still dont
>>have a problem, but this is going to change prety soon ... and then you would
>>not be able to run most of the newer apps !
>>It is like saying , I will use only DOS 6.0 and I also want to run win32 apps :)
>
>Not at all. I don't run anything that is DOS 6.0. I only run win32 applications.
>I have no need for DOS. It is outdated and almost useless.
>


I was making an analogy.
Just as you cannot run win32 apps under pure DOS , same way , you cannot run the
1.4 apps under the older M$ vm's.
The vm spec , language definition and the essential base support libraries have
moved on.
Hence if you dont want to be locked onto a older version - you better upgrade :)
Pretty soon most people are going to stop supporting 1.1 vm's - most already
dont !

>Peter



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