Author: Bruce Moreland
Date: 10:35:50 12/11/98
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On December 11, 1998 at 07:09:30, Peter Herttrich wrote: >This answer also to Bruce. > >If someone acts like a moron, i call him so. >You say: This is not an ExClusionary Club. I don't think so. >This club is for people, which have to say something abt >computerchess. The namend guy had nothing to say (see RGCC) >abt this, only agitation, insults, moronics. Why should >i wish to see him here? >Give him chances? He had time enough to take his chance in RGCC. >Why should i give him here a chance? I will respond to this with a personal opinion, once again. It is real hard to disconnect CCC from r.g.c.c., since it's many of the same people writing in both places, and the topic is the same, but I think it is important to try. One very good reason is that it puts the moderators in an impossible position. You can't assume that they read r.g.c.c., and you can't assume that they are well versed in the politics of that place, it is enough of a job to be able to judge the pulse of *this* place. What the moderator sees is a personal attack on someone who has done nothing here to earn it, and a complaint about this attack. If the defense is that the person is misbehaving elsewhere, it puts the burden on the moderators to evaluate the truth of this, and that's a big burden, and I don't think that anyone should assume that they will volunteer to accept it. It also might lead to unintended consequences, for instance a person making a personal attack on someone, and saying that it is justified by their off-line (in person) behavior, which would be even less possible to judge, but approximately as valid. It makes a lot more sense to just not let external stuff carry over into here. It's safest for you and deprives the person in question with a lot of laugh opportunities, assuming that is an issue for them. It would have been *way* better had the post that started this just been *ignored*, but some people just had to poke at him, and here we are. >When I live in a street with moron-neigbourhood and I have no >chance to get rid of them, I move away. When they follow, >then the point is reached, where i begin to defend my infrastructure. It's not the people that are the problem, it's the behavior. When this place was founded, there was a lot of debate about excluding Rolf at the start, before he had a chance to write even one post. What happened is that he was allowed to create an account. I don't know if this was because that group had a majority who really opposed excluding Rolf at the start, or if it simply didn't get around to blocking him from creating an account, but in any case I think it was the right thing to do. It is a person's behavior in CCC that matters. >Last: Take a look at RGCC and the last posts of evans and rethink, >if you really want to see him here. I assume that if Sean's r.g.c.c. behavior spills over into here, it would be handled. >Ofcourse IMHO. >One Question: How abt an opinionpoll abt this problem? >The community should say, if one should be a member or not. No way. There is a reason that trials are done with a jury rather than with a pair of 1-800 call-in numbers and "Court TV". The public should have the power to govern themselves however they want, but regarding personal issues like this I think it makes way more sense that the public appoint people, who are in the end accountable to the public, of course, to look into the issue carefully, discuss it in detail, and make the best decision they can. This is not an elitist argument, it is simply an argument that it is not appropriate to handle every governance issue via referendum, and threat of referendum doesn't help the people who are trying to solve these problems. I'm not involved in the Sean Evans thing, so I'm not arguing that you let *me* decide it somehow. Someone else is handling Sean issues, and my hope is that people would just let them take care of it how they see fit, without adding extra complexity to the situation by creating additional related moderation issues. Meaning, it's a lot easier for the moderators to bust someone who attacks you if you are the only one who is bloody. bruce >Peter
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