Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:32:09 03/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On March 25, 2004 at 14:28:09, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On March 25, 2004 at 13:35:03, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On March 25, 2004 at 10:02:57, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On March 23, 2004 at 18:18:51, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On March 23, 2004 at 17:28:17, martin fierz wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 23, 2004 at 17:13:46, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On March 23, 2004 at 16:40:46, Renze Steenhuisen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On March 23, 2004 at 16:38:28, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>forgot to mention, i dont try null move on 0 ply >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Than what's your test set? >>>>>> >>>>>>test set?i just let two versions of my engine play each other a couple of 15 0 >>>>>>games, the result is either a draw or a win for the one w/o null move, even tho >>>>>>it searches deeper as i already mentioned >>>>> >>>>>"a couple" meaning...? >>>>> >>>>>if it's two games, forget it. if it's 10 games, forget it too. start believing >>>>>it when it's 100 games... >>>> >>>>I think that if you do not get improvement with null move based on 10 games then >>>>there is good chance that you have a bug in the implementation. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>I have to agree with Uri here. If your program plays weaker with null move >>>after 10 games, you screwed something up. >>> >>>Null move is simply _that big_. >>> >>>Getting 2 extra plys should show up long before 100 games . . . >> >>I have to disagree with you. You can implement null move incorrectly and still >>score better in ten games. The reason I say that is because I have seen it. > >Please do not put words in my mouth. I said "If A then B", which you corrupted >to "If !A then !B". > >I stand by my statement: If you implement null move correctly, it _will_ win a >10 game match. 2 ply -> 100 elo -> dominance. Someone can do the math here on >confidence regions, but I'm very sure the version with null move has a 95% >chance or better to win. > >anthony Null-move is better, but it is _not_ 200 elo better. Try it. Both Bruce and I played some of these matches (null on vs null off). It is more like 50-60 Elo improvement. And it _definitely_ isn't "2 plies". There is a great difference in accuracy between 12 plies no null and 12 plies with null... You go 2 plies deeper, but you don't outplay the no-null opponent like it would outplay itself with a 2 ply handicap...
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