Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Do programs need Openning books for correspondance chess???

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 14:01:00 03/27/04

Go up one level in this thread


On March 27, 2004 at 13:53:48, Derek Paquette wrote:

>New game
>r1bqk1nr/pppp1ppp/2n5/b7/2BpP3/2P2N2/P4PPP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Shredder 8:
>
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 5/17   00:00:00
>1...dxc3 2.Qd3 Nf6 3.Nxc3 0-0 4.Bb2
>  ³  (-0.53)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00
>1...Nf6 2.Nxd4 Ne5 3.Bd5 c6 4.g4
>  ³  (-0.54)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00
>1...Nf6 2.Ng5 0-0 3.Ba3 d6 4.cxd4
>  ³  (-0.60)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00
>1...Nf6 2.e5 d5 3.Bb5 Ne4 4.Bxc6+ bxc6 5.Qa4 Bxc3 6.Nxc3 Nxc3 7.Qxc6+ Bd7
>  ³  (-0.45)   Depth: 7/19   00:00:00  54kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.Qxd4 Nxd4 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Ng5+ Nxg5
>  ³  (-0.70)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  115kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.Qb3 d6 4.cxd4 0-0 5.Qd3
>  ³  (-0.70)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  120kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.Qb3 Nxc3 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Bxf7+ Kf8
>  ³  (-0.45)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:01  142kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 d5 3.Bb5 Ne4 4.Bxc6+ bxc6 5.Qa4 Bxc3 6.Qxc6+ Qd7 7.Qxc7 Qxc7
>  ³  (-0.45)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:01  212kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 d5 3.Bb5 Ne4 4.cxd4 Bd7 5.Qb3 Bc8
>  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:01  347kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qe7 3.Bg5 Nf6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 d6 6.Bxf6 Qxf6 7.Qe5+ Nxe5
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:02  529kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qe7 3.Nxc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nxe5 5.Nxe5 Qe6 6.Bxe6
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:02  556kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nf6 5.Bxf6 gxf6 6.Bxf7+ Qxf7 7.Qxb7 Bxb7
>  ³  (-0.47)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:04  1003kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nf6 5.Bxf6 Qxf6 6.Nd5 Qg6 7.Nf4 Qf6
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:05  1237kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nh6 5.Qa3 Bb4 6.Qb2 0-0 7.Nd5 Qxe4 8.Bxh6
>gxh6 9.Nxc7
>  ³  (-0.33)   Depth: 12/33   00:00:07  1793kN
>1...Nf6 2.cxd4 Nxe4 3.Bd5 Nf6 4.Bxc6 bxc6 5.Qe1+ Bxe1
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 12/37   00:00:10  2652kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 d5 3.Bb5 Ne4 4.Bxc6+ bxc6 5.Qa4 Bxc3 6.Nxc3 Nxc3 7.Qxc6+ Bd7 8.Qc5
>Ne2+ 9.Kh1 c6 10.Nxd4 Nxd4 11.Qxd4
>  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 12/37   00:00:12  3154kN
>1...Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.Qc2 Nxc3 4.Bg5 Nb4 5.Qc1 Nxb1 6.Bxd8 Kxd8
>  =  (-0.11)   Depth: 13/36   00:00:17  4694kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nh6 5.Qa3 Bb4 6.Qb2 0-0 7.Qa3 Bxa3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 13/36   00:00:19  5294kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Bd3 0-0 7.e5 Nd5 8.Qc4 Qe6
>  ³  (-0.41)   Depth: 13/36   00:00:22  6145kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Bxf6 Qxf6 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qa3
>  ³  (-0.65)   Depth: 14/39   00:00:35  9387kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nh6 5.Nd5 0-0 6.Bd3 Re8 7.Nf4 Qxe4 8.Bxe4
>Rxe4
>  ³  (-0.49)   Depth: 15/39   00:00:55  14629kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Rfe1 0-0 7.Bd3 d6 8.e5
>dxe5 9.Bxg6
>  ³  (-0.54)   Depth: 16/45   00:01:46  28157kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nf6 5.Bxf6 Qxf6 6.Nd5 Qd8 7.Qa3 d6 8.Bb5 0-0
>9.Bxc6
>  ³  (-0.49)   Depth: 17/47   00:03:17  52444kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.e5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nge7 5.Ne2 0-0 6.Nf4 Qe4 7.Bxf7+ Kh8 8.Nd3 d6
>  ³  (-0.68)   Depth: 18/52   00:09:23  148771kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.e5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nge7 5.Ne2 0-0 6.Nf4 Qe4 7.Bxf7+ Kh8 8.Nd3 b6
>9.Ng5 Qf5 10.f4
>  ³  (-0.64)   Depth: 19/50   00:14:58  227754kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.e5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nge7 5.Ne2 0-0 6.Nf4 Qe4 7.Bd3 Qb4 8.Bxh7+
>Kxh7 9.Ng5+ Kg8 10.Qh3 Qxf4 11.Bxf4 Nd4
>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 20/45   00:19:50  293603kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.e5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Nge7 5.Ne2 0-0 6.Nf4 Qe4 7.Bd3 Qb4 8.Bxh7+
>  ³  (-0.39)   Depth: 20/53   00:27:50  421826kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Rae1 0-0 7.Bd3 h6 8.e5 Nd5
>9.Qc4 Qh5 10.Bxh6 Nb6 11.Bg5
>  ³  (-0.38)   Depth: 21/55   01:02:41  953418kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Rfe1 0-0 7.Bd3 d5 8.exd5
>Nxd5 9.Qc2 Qh5 10.Be4 Ncb4
>  ³  (-0.51)   Depth: 22/57   02:05:59  1935716kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.Rfe1 0-0 7.Bd3 d5 8.exd5
>Nxd5 9.Qb3 Bf5 10.Bxf5 Qxf5 11.Qxb7 Ncb4 12.Re5
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 23/61   04:07:39  3837544kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.e5 Ne4 7.Qe3 h6 8.Bh4 0-0
>9.Bd5 d6 10.Qxe4 dxe5 11.Qxg6 Kh8
>  ³  (-0.31)   Depth: 24/59   05:41:24  5237053kN
>1...dxc3 2.Qb3 Qf6 3.Bg5 Qg6 4.Nxc3 Bxc3 5.Qxc3 Nf6 6.e5 Ne4 7.Qe3 0-0 8.Bd3 d5
>9.exd6 Bf5 10.Be7 Nxd6 11.Nh4
>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 24/63   08:13:41  7597816kN

As you can see, Shredder 8 still does not get it.  Nor does any other chess
engine I have tried.  However, the score is much closer to reality than other
chess engines.

Here is Shredder 7.04's analysis of :
[D]r1bqk2r/ppppnppp/2n5/b7/2BpP3/2P2N2/P4PPP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq -

Which is the position for white after black moves the knight to e7 instead of
capturing the pawn on d3:

Analysis from E:\bozuk.epd
3/27/2004 1:52:07 AM Level: 30000 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Shredder 7.04

1) bqk2r/ppppnppp/2n5/b
    Searching move:
    Best move (Shredder 7.04): c3xd4
    Not found in: 8:20:00
    2   00:00 -0.41   c3xd4 00
    2+  00:00 -0.26   Nf3xd4 Ne7d5
    2   00:00 -0.11   Nf3xd4 Nc6e5
    3   00:00  0.17   Nf3xd4 Nc6e5 Bc4b3
    4-  00:00 -0.12   Nf3xd4 Nc6e5 Bc1g5 Ne5xc4 Bg5xe7
    4   00:00 -0.44   Nf3xd4 Nc6e5 Bc4b3 00
    4+  00:00 -0.39   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc8h3
    4   00:00 -0.22   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5
    4+  00:00 -0.21   Bc1b2 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc8e6 d5xc6 Be6xc4 c6xb7 Ba5xc3 b7xa8Q
    4   00:00 -0.21   Bc1b2 00 c3xd4 d7d6
    5-  00:00 -0.46   Bc1b2 00 Bc4xf7+ Kg8xf7 Qd1xd4 Nc6xd4
    5   00:00 -0.61   Bc1b2 d4xc3 Nb1xc3 00 Nc3d5 d7d6
    5+  00:00 -0.60   Nf3xd4 Nc6xd4 c3xd4 Ba5e1
    5+  00:00 -0.25   Nf3xd4 00 Bc1g5
    5   00:00 -0.12   Nf3xd4 Nc6e5 Bc4b3 00 Bc1g5
    5+  00:00 -0.11   c3xd4 Nc6xd4 Qd1xd4 d7d5
    5+  00:00  0.24   c3xd4 Nc6e5 Nf3xe5 d7d5
    5   00:00  0.28   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc1g5
    6-  00:00  0.03   c3xd4 d7d6 d4d5 Nc6e5 Bc1h6
    6   00:00  0.02   c3xd4 d7d6 d4d5 Nc6e5 Nf3xe5 d6xe5
    7   00:00  0.24   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc1g5 f7f6 Qd1b3 h7h6
    8   00:01  0.35   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Qd1b3 Nc6e7 Bc1g5 f7f6 Qb3a3 f6xg5
Qa3xa5
    9-  00:02  0.10   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Qd1b3 Nc6e7 Bc1g5 f7f6 Nf3h4 f6xg5
Bc4xd5
    9   00:02  0.04   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc1a3 Bc8e6 Nb1d2 Ba5b4 Ba3xb4
Nc6xb4
   10+  00:04  0.29   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Qd1b3 Nc6e7 Bc1g5 00 Bc4xd5 Ne7g6
Bg5xd8
   10   00:04  0.29   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Qd1b3 Nc6e7 Bc1g5 c7c6 Bg5xe7
Ke8xe7 Qb3e3+ Nd5xe3
   11   00:11  0.24   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc1a3 Bc8e6 Bc4b5 Nd5b4 Ba3xb4
Ba5xb4 Bb5xc6+ b7xc6 Nf3e5
   12   00:23  0.11   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Qd1b3 Nc6e7 Bc1a3 c7c6 Ba3xe7
Ke8xe7 Bc4xd5 Qd8xd5 Qb3a3+ Ke7e8 Nb1c3
   13   01:40  0.22   c3xd4 Ba5b6 Nb1c3 00 d4d5 Nc6a5 Bc4d3 f7f5 d5d6 c7xd6
Bc1g5 Na5c4
   14   02:57  0.03   c3xd4 Ba5b6 Nb1c3 00 d4d5 Nc6a5 Bc4e2 d7d6 Nc3a4 f7f5
Na4xb6 a7xb6 Qd1a4 f5xe4 Qa4xe4
   15   07:09  0.27   c3xd4 d7d5 e4xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc1a3 Ba5b4 Ba3xb4 Nd5xb4 Rf1e1+
Bc8e6 Bc4xe6 f7xe6 Re1xe6+ Ke8f7 Qd1b3 Qd8d7 Re6xc6+ Qd7e6 Rc6xe6
   16   14:28  0.21   c3xd4 00 d4d5 Nc6b8 Qd1a4 Ba5b6 d5d6 c7xd6 Nb1c3 Nb8c6
Bc1f4 d6d5 e4xd5 Ne7g6 Bf4d6
   17   29:28  0.10   c3xd4 00 d4d5 Nc6b8 d5d6 c7xd6 Bc1b2 d6d5 Qd1d4 f7f6
Bc4xd5+ Kg8h8 Bd5b3 Nb8c6 Qd4c4 d7d6 Nb1d2 Nc6e5 Qc4e6
   18   2:20:38  0.12   c3xd4 Ba5b6 Nf3g5 d7d5 e4xd5 Nc6a5 d5d6 Na5xc4 Qd1a4+
Ne7c6 Rf1e1+ Nc4e5 Re1xe5+ Ke8f8 d6xc7 Bb6xc7 Bc1a3+ Kf8g8 Ng5xf7 Kg8xf7 Qa4b3+
Kf7g6 Qb3d3+ Kg6f7 Qd3b3+ Kf7g6 Qb3d3+ Kg6f7 Qd3b3+
   19   4:37:24  0.02   c3xd4 00 d4d5 Nc6b8 d5d6 c7xd6 Bc1b2 d6d5 e4xd5 d7d6
Nb1d2 Rf8e8 Nd2b3 Ba5b6
   20   8:01:19  0.08   c3xd4 00 d4d5 Nc6b8 Qd1a4 Ba5b6 d5d6 c7xd6 Nb1c3 d6d5
Nc3xd5 Ne7xd5 Bc4xd5 Nb8c6 Bc1g5
   3/27/2004 10:12:10 AM, Time for this analysis: 08:20:00, Rated time: 8:20:00

I am also analyzing the position after the pawn capture right now.  It has only
been 4 hours so far.  I analyzed this position years ago and found the GM advice
to be sound.  I am trying again with modern equipment and programs to see if I
can improve the machine analysis.  The last time I tried, you had to make two
moves along the pv before the programs could get an inkling of what is actually
going on.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.