Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: King's Out : move ordering questions

Author: Bernd Nürnberger

Date: 05:14:03 04/03/04

Go up one level in this thread


On April 02, 2004 at 10:45:52, Heiner Marxen wrote:

>On April 02, 2004 at 10:06:10, Bernd Nürnberger wrote:
>
>>On April 02, 2004 at 09:10:06, Heiner Marxen wrote:
>>
>>>On April 01, 2004 at 07:57:27, Bernd Nürnberger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 31, 2004 at 12:35:21, Renze Steenhuisen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>(1)
>>>>>>I recognized that a different move ordering delivers very alternating
>>>>>>results in my alpha beta search. (I implemented null move, pv search,
>>>>>>mvv/lva, some history moves, transposition table, quiescence search ...)
>>>>>>Is this a bug or is this a normal behaviour?
>>>>>>For example, with 3 history moves (on initial position) i get:
>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>> 8.   0:01.12      993512   0.00  Nc3 Nf6 d4 d5 Nf3 Bf5 Ne5 Ne4
>>>-------------------------------^^^^
>>>>>>... and with just one more history move (4):
>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>> 8.   0:01.28     1088694   0.00  e4 Nc6 Nf3 e5 d4 Nxd4 Nxd4 h6
>>>-------------------------------^^^^
>>>>>
>>>>>Seems reasonable.
>>>>
>>>>Mmmh, that still is not very reasonably to me to get much different results
>>>>for different move orderings.
>>>>The score of the moves itself should not be affected ?!
>>>>Do you have an explanation?
>>>
>>>But the score _is_not_ changed... see above.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Heiner
>>
>>
>>That's just a coincidence, another example from another position:
>>
>>10.   0:00.57      459625   0.22  Rxf4 Kg3 Rf7 Kxg2 Kb4 c5 Kb3 c4
>>
>>... and with a slightly different move ordering:
>>
>>10.   0:01.78     1694656   0.01  e3 Kg3 exf4 Rf5 Rb2 Kxf4 Ka4 Rg5
>>
>>That still seems somewhat strange to me ?!
>>
>>These are not made up strange examples. A different move ordering
>>changes everything very much in my engine and I am not glad about
>>this fact, whether it's natural or not, because I still cannot
>>understand it ..
>>
>>Greetings, Bernd
>
>Without transposition table that is a bug, IMHO.
>With TT anything can happen.
>
>Cheers,
>Heiner

I recognized the same, because I tried to figure out, what could cause
this behaviour and turned certain things on/off (TT, IID, nullmove,...).
Disabling TT brought me constant PVs even when changing other things...
When enabling TT, the PV/score varies very quick and much and brought
totally mixed up results...

I will inspect my TT code. Maybe I can do something for more stability.
Either it's really normal behaviour of a TT or it's a bug in the TT stuff.
Let's check it...

Greetings, Bernd



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.