Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 10:32:24 04/06/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 05, 2004 at 21:08:19, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>I don't think they are going to have much fun playing against Shredder, not many >>>find it interesting to get beaten over and over again in 20 moves. >> >>That's why ChessMaster has so many built in personalities. > >But they have to change it from the default, which might be hard for them :) > >>>If people want to learn how to drive a car they take lessons, if they want to >>>program their VCR they read the manual. >> >>How many houses did you walk into and see the VCR time signal blinking? I have >>some friends whom I have set the VCR clock 5 or 6 times. Doesn't mean that they >>are stupid. Just techo-phobic. > >They are stupid if they expect things to work magicly. >I do not expect to be able to fly an F16 without lots of training, why should >anyone expect to be able to use a computer without putting some work into it? > >>>Let's face it, interfaces are not going to diappear in the near future. >>>They might eventually merge into some kind of standard but they won't disappear >>>I think. >> >>Notepad as an interface will be daunting. Furthermore, many people are terrible >>typists. > >Notepad is conceptually closer to the pen and paper which they are familiar >with. > >I often find it quite hard to find something in a menu if it's not where I >guessed it would be. >In notepad you could always do a search on a keyword and jump straight there. >Browsing through help files is always a nightmare compared to that IMO. > >>>It is relevant if they want the most out of their program, if they can live with >>>less then they can do without. >> >>It needs to start simple at least. If somewhere in the install process the >>instructions say "open file with notepad and set pawn hash to 1/16th of >>available memory" the product will fail. > >I think that is common sense, most winboard engines also have their default hash >pretty low so it doesn't require changing to run, only changing to run well. > >>On the other hand, if there is some >>menu item for setting pawn hash and there is a helpful description for it on the >>form, and there are 2 pages of explanations if they hit the help button, then >>the will eventually adjust the pawn hash if they feel like going into that much >>detail. >>>If you aren't willing to learn how to edit a line in an ini-file then you can go >>>and spend $50 to get one of those profi click-click devices. >> >>?profi click-click? >>They are not going to spend any money to edit something. If they can't do it, >>they will put it back in the box. They might return it or they might just let >>it sit on the shelf. In either case the customer got nothing for their money. > >Or they might decide it's about time to learn the basics of using a computer :) > >>>Lazy or stupid has its price. :) >> >>Not knowing how to use text editors implies neither lazy nor stupid. It implies >>a certain lack of technical skills. > >I don't mean "retarded" stupid, I mean "ignorant of something" stupid. > >> If someone at a stable put a strange iron >>device in your hand and said "Go curry the blaze." most people would not know >>what to do. That implies neither that they are lazy nor stupid. > >I would feel stupid and look stupid, that would be stupid thing to do to me. :) > >>They may or >>may not be interested in learning what "curry" and "blaze" are. If they are >>horse lovers, they may get interested and ask about what these things mean and >>actually perform the task correctly. > >Yes but what is your point? > >Your point seems to be try and weezel out of learning anything and expect other >people to make life easy for you so you never have to read a book or know >anything. > >If an 8 months old baby can't do it must be too hard, fix it! > >My point is that if you want to use something or do something, learn how to do >it. If you don't care about learning how to do it you probably don't care about >doing it either. > >>>However, they are in luck as Arena is the best of both worlds :) >> >>Arena is nice, and SCID is nice. But Chess Assistant is light years ahead of >>those. > >I don't have chess assistant, I had the light version but it wasn't so great >IMO. Certainly, it would be beneficial for people who buy chess programs to learn about hash tables and resign factors and things like that. Here are the parameters that you can adjust with Beowulf: 5 ; avoid_null_mat 3 ; avoid_null_pieces 4 ; avoid_raz_num 5 ; back_rank_unsafe 4 ; backward_pawn_1 8 ; backward_pawn_2 18 ; backward_pawn_3 25 ; bishop_enprise 10 ; bishop_pinned 325 ; bishop_score 4 ; bishop_trapped 3 ; block_pawns 3 ; centre_pawn_bonus 8 ; check_extend 6 ; cmthreat_extend 5 ; connected_rooks 30 ; dangerous_pp 4 ; defended_pawn 4 ; defended_q_attack 500 ; delta_level 12 ; doubled_pawns 10 ; doubled_pawns_iso 8 ; doubled_rooks 0 ; draw_score 4 ; drive_away_long 7 ; drive_away_short 8 ; early_queen 2 ; early_queen_penalty 4 ; early_rook_penalty 150 ; eval_futility 150 ; extra_minor 50 ; game_length 4 ; half_open_file 2 ; half_open_file_k 3 ; half_open_file_q 5 ; hostile_blockade 56 ; ignore_zugzwang 18 ; isolated_pawn 8 ; king_safety 4 ; king_tropism 25 ; knight_enprise 10 ; knight_pinned 320 ; knight_score 20 ; knight_trapped 3 ; late_queen_bonus 30 ; lone_queen 40 ; loss_scale 4 ; max_extend 8 ; max_qui 30 ; min_left 6 ; no_centre_pawns 25 ; no_king_threat 5 ; no_pawns 8 ; onereply_extend 6 ; open_file 4 ; open_file_k 4 ; open_file_q 12 ; overstretched 2 ; pawn_block 4 ; pawnpush_extend 4 ; piece_blockade 6 ; pp_attacked 20 ; pp_storm 14 ; queen_7th_rank 3 ; queen_attack 10 ; queen_attack_def 60 ; queen_enprise 5 ; queen_immobile 5 ; queen_mobile 80 ; queen_occupied 35 ; queen_pinned 930 ; queen_score 4 ; queen_trapped 100 ; razor_harsh 0 ; razor_margin 25 ; razor_scale 4 ; recap_extend 2 ; revcheck_extend 8 ; reward_castle 16 ; rook_7th_rank 4 ; rook_attack 16 ; rook_behind_pp 3 ; rook_blocked 8 ; rook_boxed_in 40 ; rook_enprise 50 ; rook_occupied 15 ; rook_pinned 500 ; rook_score 30 ; rook_trapped 4 ; shield_one 2 ; shield_two 8 ; shield_zero 3 ; side_attack 8 ; space_defended 4 ; space_won 8 ; spoilt_castle_1 6 ; spoilt_castle_2 15 ; two_bishops 12 ; undeveloped 400 ; unstoppable_pp 1 ; use_delta 1 ; use_eval_sc 1 ; use_hash 1 ; use_history 1 ; use_iid 1 ; use_killers 1 ; use_null 1 ; use_razoring 1 ; use_see 1 ; use_verification 1 ; use_window 150 ; v_dangerous_pp 29 ; window Still, I think it absurd to think that someone who walks into a retail store will bother to learn what parameters like those mean. These things are interesting to persons of a certain bent who are very rare. You did not understand my illustration about the horse. My point was that most people don't know what those terms meant or how to accomplish the goal. Of the group that do not know them, only a small fraction will care to learn them. There are 5 million people who have bought ChessMaster. I am guessing that 4,990,000 of them have NO IDEA what a hash table is. Probabbly about one million of them use the product regularly (e.g. once per month or more). Very very few people will need to know technical things to use and enjoy the product. Sure, if they want to learn intricacies they might enjoy it even more. In the same way, most people cannot tell you what a good valve clearance for their engine is, or why the spark ignites the gasoline before top dead center. But they can still enjoy and drive the car, even without knowing how to tune it up. I am not disagreeing that it is better to learn. I am saying that most people won't care about all those parameters we spent weeks fussing over and it is not a defect on their part, any more than not knowing the compression ratio of your car's engine is a defect in the driver.
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