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Subject: Re: Very Easy Why Some People Hate Chessmaster

Author: blass uri

Date: 04:14:21 12/13/98

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On December 13, 1998 at 05:01:48, Bert Seifriz wrote:

>On December 12, 1998 at 19:09:51, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On December 12, 1998 at 18:47:42, Micheal Cummings wrote:
>>>
>>>On December 12, 1998 at 16:38:29, Bert Seifriz wrote:
>>>
>>>>Very easy:
>>>>You are a programmer and you work 1 year and you have changed many
>>>>details  and so you change your chess program Slaughterchess version 1 in
>>>>version 2. Okay.
>>>>Or you say my changes are so tremendous I call that version
>>>>Slaughterchess Diamond 50 Carat now! Okay, no objections if you made a
>>>>jewel out of your program.
>>>>Or you make some little changes and you can still say this is my new
>>>>program. The old version was version 1, but now we have the year
>>>>2000 at hand so the new version is called Slaughterchess Millennium
>>>>2000 (there are no parallels with real life intended here!)
>>>>I would have some objections here!
>>>>
>>>>And well there are also some honest and humble people in this world.
>>>>They make a little change, their previous
>>>>version was 1 and now they call it 1.1, or when the change was smaller
>>>>they call it 1.01! This sounds reasonable and honest to me!
>>>>Johan de Koning is honest! And now read his version numbers.
>>>>Not 5000 or 6000, this is Mindscape algebra! Read his engine
>>>>version numbers, that's what we are talking about! And in these
>>>>numbers you can read which improvements he thought he made!
>>>>Nice weekend, Bert
>>>
>>>I do not take your version method thinking as being able to tell how good a
>>>program has jumped. I have many programs, not chess which do the same thing and
>>>there are some many big improvements.
>>>
>>>I think there is a big strength difference between CM6000 and Cm5x00, Have you
>>>ever thought Johan only does this in order to not make a big statement on
>>>strength. He might be covering his bases, that if it is around the same as the
>>>previous version, we can all use your theory, but if it is a big jump, which I
>>>believe it is, I do not believe you theory holds water.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Micheal
>>
>>Okay, Chessmaster 3000 and before sucked for playing strength, let's forget
>>those entirely.  4000 was the first to use a de Koning engine, if I recall
>>correctly.  All of a sudden there was a cheap program that was also strong!
>>5000 was a new version of The King (2.5 or so?).  5500 did have the same engine
>>as 5000, but I think that 6000 again has a newer version (2.7?).  I cannot check
>>these versions because I do not own these products myself, I have friends who
>>own them.  Anyway, in the most recent Dutch Championship, The King won again,
>>and I believe his engine version number was 3.0.  So, it seems as though he
>>continues to improve his software, and every once in a while Mindscape licences
>>his latest and greatest from him.
>>
>>Dave Gomboc
>
>Nobody said he did NOT improve his software at all! But I said: only
>in small steps (which do not correlate in any way with the big number
>steps 5000 and 6000 Mindscape likes so much).
>Now please believe what you want, I stick to my opinion.
>And as here are so many advocates who complain that CM is and was not
>tested in Sweden, now would be the time to make a big tournament of let us say
>500 games between CM 5000, 5500 and 6000, and I predict that you will not find
>any statistically relevant difference.

How do you know?
Did you do this test?

I think that you take the name of the engine too seriously.

By the same logic you can say that chessmaster is only a master level and not an
international master or grandmaster otherwise they would call it chess
grandmaster.

I think that only games are relevant

The history proves that you can learn nothing from the name of the engine(for
example Junior5 is clearly better than Junior4.6 when there is a little
difference between Genius5 and Genius3).

Uri



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