Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 14:43:50 04/06/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 06, 2004 at 17:32:37, Sune Fischer wrote: > >>There is no way that figure is correct, unless you count the web servers that >>people connect to. I often see these commically overblown figures quoted. They >>are rather funny. Walk into any computer store. What do all the computers have >>installed on them? Hint: It's not Linux. Linux will never be the desktop for >>the coporate world precisely because the Linux community thinks that the world >>is composed of computer geeks. > >Not all Linux users are geeks, in fact many of them are quite ordinary people. >It's not impossible and it does not require geekness to get working. It's not the users I am targeting with my remarks, but the developoers. By the way, I think that Linux is (by a landslide) the only logical platform for server applications. >>>The problem is most people are just not aware of the high quality engines you >>>can download for free. If they were I think it would hurt sales of the >>>commercial engines. Marketing is everything here, and nobody markets the free >>>stuff. >> >>It will have no impact at all on the commercial products. A commercial chess >>program has the engine as a tiny fraction of the work, and the commercial >>engines are all stronger than the best free ones. They are also more reliable. > >B.S. >Marketing is their main force. Playing Garry really puts your name out there, >having a box placed in every computer and toy store sells automaticly. I agree that marketing and shelf space are dominating. But without a superior product, you will not sell 5 million copies of anything. >Free engines are for those who know what they are looking for, you don't just >stumble on them by coincidence. I agree 100% >I also disagree the engine is a tiny fraction, I'm pretty sure the engine is the >main selling point. Not a chance. The biggest selling product ChessMaster does not have the strongest engine. >Strength only matters to the really serious players, this demanding group will >probably buy the commercial products because they have better engines, not >because their GUI has more eye candy. I think that the strongest players are more concerned about style. At least that is what I hear from GMs. The novice players that want to get a high rating online (vicariously obviously) are the ones concerned about SSDF ratings. >>>That is now your worst criticism? >>>I suggest they download SCID which is all so free. >> >>But the games stored in it are crap compared to a commercial system. Even after >>a careful cleansing of the free database systems that you can download, you will >>find 50 different spellings for Fisher or Kasparov. > >Remember Dann, we are dealing with people here who aren't able to install from >CD's and edit a txt file. >I can practicly promise you they won't care much for the quality of the database >either :) You might be right about that. >Good players will need the best of course, they are the ones who should be >purchasing the commercial products. I think that the commercial products are better for everyone, but the free ones are also excellent. That is why I have, use, and enjoy both free and commercial products. There are things you can do with the free stuff that is harder to do or cannot be done with the commercial stuff. >>>The average user can then make do with what comes pre-installed in Arena, which >>>is also plenty for the un-interested idividual anyway. >> >>Actually, that's not such a bad idea. It's not nearly so good as a commercial >>system, but it will be far easier for them than Winboard. > >Yeah, that's my point. There is so little difference beside perhaps the strength >of the engines. And Ruffian 1.0.5 comes in that bundle so it's not exactly weak. > >The question is how many of these techno-phobes who doens't know what a path is >will actually care if they are using Ruffian or Shredder? >I think not many, hence there is little need to buy a commercial product. > >The best would be for them to start out with the free stuff, and if these do not >satisfy their needs then they can spend their money on a stronger package. I like this pattern too. It is what I did. I used free stuff for years before I bought anything. >It seems the process acts in reverse, they first buy the commercial stuff and >later discover they could have saved some money :) That is what John Merlino said, and he is clearly in a position to know. >>>Supporting the winboard engines is just a bonus, something the user should be >>>happy about! >>>The Fritz GUI is just being cruel to the users expecting them to fiddle with >>>adaptors. >> >>They make a few open source engines available. Most users won't care what >>engine that they play. > >Right! :) > >>>Perhaps that is why you are so negative, you have been around the worst of the >>>worst and think this represents the average user. >> >>The system I supported was very much like Winboard. You had to edit >>configuration files. It was called G-Wiz graphics and used a driver set called >>the GSS*CGI from Beaverton Oregon. The operations you had to do to operate the >>system were very nearly equivalent to what you have to do for Winboard. >> >>>Have you any idea how many who _didn't_ need to call technical support because >>>they figured it out on their own? >> >>No clue. Probably about half [wild guess]. I did programming and even sales as >>well. It was a small company (10 people). The reason I brought it up was to >>point out that I was speaking from experience. > >Yes I knew you were, just asking you to keep the perspective. :) > >>>If you don't know these techniques, don't worry about playing with a chess >>>program, worry about taking a computers 101 course! >> >>A bazillion users of chessmaster did not have to take a computer course to use >>it. > >Probably these people has needed help to get the internet and the new sound card >to work. Then they can get someone to show them how to edit a text file too. > >>That is why they sold 5 million copies. And if people have to edit text >>files, that product will not sell 5 million copies. > >That is not why they sold 5 million. > >Try and stop marketing the product, take it off the shelves and put it on a free >download on some geocity machine using a different name. > >It is still chessmaster, it is still as good as ever. Will it get many >downloads, no, because nobody knows what it is and nobody knows where to find >it. > >"Branding" is the world we live in. You definitely have a valid point as far as branding. But I think we would see 50 million downloads of ChessMaster if it were free. As evidence I point to the volume on Kazaa in former times. (IOW -- people do have enough sophistication to download if there is an available toolset that makes it easy for them).
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