Author: Stephen Ham
Date: 08:12:08 04/14/04
Go up one level in this thread
Hi Terry, I agree with you and am glad that 13 a3! interests you as well. As you know, I'm a correspondnece chess player with a technical style of play (tactics aren't my strength - especially against machines!). So I've had fun testing engines to see if any of them will select my purely human moves. So far, there's been very little acceptance of my positional/technical move tests by the engines. The closest correlation seems to be with Rebel 12. In one of my tests, it was the only engine to select the move that I played. When I fed my move into the other engines that didn't select my move, their evaluations eventually rose to a favorable figure. So it's clear that engines in general won't find the "positional" moves that I think are best. But when forced to play the move, they eventually learn to like the resulting positions, although the evaluation may not be as high as the original PV for that engine. So I think it would be fun for you and other engine experts to test 13 a3! to see if any engine selects it. Since the justifications behind 13 a3! are deep (they certainly are for humans), you may need to allow 24-hours or so for the test. Thanks again for mentioning this game, Terry. It is indseed rich in test positions, both tactically and of a positional/technical nature. I'll try to Rebel 12 on this position and will report what it selects. Stephen >On April 13, 2004 at 18:15:36, Stephen Ham wrote: > >>Hi Terry, >> >>I guess you can drop the phony name now, since we know it's you. > > Indeed, I admitted it:) But I held off on the name change as I'm not certain >it will go over well with the CTF Moderators. I'd like to come back with my >name...CCC doesn't mind, but that's another chess game;-) > >It's interesting you brought up 13. a3! as it's a very key move early in the >game and it crossed my mind as well. You would have to make sure books were >off, as it's in opening books. > >I will test this move latter, but my hardware is S-L-O-W! Still, fast hardware >may not be of much use as it is a positional move of the human kind as you say, >(long range/planning), rather than the computer/program kind. > >Move 23. Bf6! although tactical, is also another good test move, so this game is >rich for computer/program testing. > >Terry >> >>Anyway, this was indeed a great game and I'm glad that you brought it up. >>Thanks. For me, the key move was 13 a3(!). While such a move has subsequently >>been played by others who've learned from Fischer, spending a tempo to slow >>Black's advances on the Queenside is an original positional motif that's >>probably far beyond any engine's horizon. I think Fischer was the first to play >>a3 in this common position. >> >>While the move isn't a decisive winner in a concrete sense, it gives White a >>large positional advantge. So it might be fun to see is some of the more >>"knowledge" laden engines can find 13 a3. My guess is that the move is both too >>strategic and too human (i.e. long-range planing) for any engine to find. >> >>Stephen >> >>>Fischer played the famous 29. Bg2 annotated with two exclamation marks, but >>>further inspection shows 29. Bg4!! forces mate! After 29. Bg2!? Black failed to >>>play 29...Qf8 and was quickly mated, albeit Black was lost, he could have >>>prolonged the game. >>> >>> >>>[D]2r1q1k1/r4p1p/b3pBp1/n3P1QP/p2p3R/P2p2PB/2P2P2/R5K1 w - - 0 29 >>> >>> >>>1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.g3 c5 5.Bg2 Nc6 6.Ngf3 Be7 7.0–0 0–0 8.e5 Nd7 9.Re1 >>>b5 10.Nf1 b4 11.h4 a5 12.Bf4 a4 13.a3 bxa3 14.bxa3 Na5 15.Ne3 Ba6 16.Bh3 d4 >>>17.Nf1 Nb6 18.Ng5 Nd5 19.Bd2 Bxg5 20.Bxg5 Qd7 21.Qh5 Rfc8 22.Nd2 Nc3 23.Bf6 Qe8 >>>24.Ne4 g6 25.Qg5 Nxe4 26.Rxe4 c4 27.h5 cxd3 28.Rh4 Ra7 (The game continued >>>29.Bg2!? dxc2?? 30.Qh6 Qf8 31.Qxh7+!! 1-0 >>> >>>Test your engines, how many programs find 29. Bg4!!...? 29. Bg4!! is vital as it >>>targets the e6 pawn, Fischer failed to see this. 29. Bg2!? was played in order >>>to deliver mate with the B going to e4. >>> >>> >>>Lloyd
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.