Author: Mark Young
Date: 12:43:46 04/16/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2004 at 15:09:01, Stephen Ham wrote: >On April 16, 2004 at 14:05:26, Mark Young wrote: > >>On April 16, 2004 at 10:54:12, Stephen Ham wrote: >> >>>On April 16, 2004 at 09:00:36, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>> >>>>First it was Deep Fritz against Kramnik then Deep Junior versus Kasparov, >>>>nothing but to boring draw matches. It is about time for us to see the strongest >>>>chess program Shredder 8 accomplishing what Deep Blue did back in 1997 against >>>>Kasparov. >>>> >>>>Jorge >>> >>>Jorge, >>> >>>I think that you're forgetting that the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans. >>>That's why Rebel probably has the best record against humans of any engine to >>>date. I've read that Crafty scores well against us too. >> >>This maybe correct...but I don't think so. More data needed. >> >>I am not sure your claim is correct that Rebel has the best record to date of >>any engine. I am sure Junior, Hiarcs, Chess Tiger, and the Fritz will argue this >>point with you. >> >>I am not sure what you mean by the best record against humans. >> >>Chess Tiger 14, Hiarcs 8, Junior 6, Fritz 8 have all had 2700+ PR playing >>against humans. >> >>Junior 8 and Deep Fritz 8 have a 2800+ PR playing humans. >> >>As far as I know Shredder 7.04 or Shredder 8. The top programs on the SSDF list >>don't have any GM games played to data. So to make the statement that: >> >>"the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans." >> >>This statement has no basis in fact. This is pure speculation. > >Not at all, Mark. Again, Jorge was writing about matches against the best >humans. Fritz and Junior and others have had their chances and the results were: >draws. This was the point of Jorge's post. I disagree strongly. Fritz and Junior drew the strongest player in the history of the game. And again it is prue speculation to say the strongest engine vs. engine computer is not the best playing humans. When you have NO data to back up this statement. As Shredder 8 has no human games. > >Instead, the engines you wrote about above gained their successes in tournament >action. However, some of those engines failed in their match against Smirin. I remember the Smirin match. It was a small 2 game match played against 4 programs. To make the history accurate about this match. Junior should have won its 2 game match with Smirin. And Chess Tiger lost, but was not set to the strongest setting playing humans. Chess Tiger played on Anti-human mode...in this mode Chess Tiger plays much weaker playing humans or computers. So >in the context of matches, Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's. Since Rebel's victories >were several years ago, then one presumes that the latest version should prove >at least as strong against humans. Rebel won the match because the match was fast and slow time controls. Rebel did not win the slow time control part of the match with Anand. You can cherry pick the results you want (tournament vs match play) & (winning against Van Wely Vs Drawing Kasparov and Krammink) But below is the most up to data resutls for Human Vs Computers I can find. Opp S/W Mp MHZ ELO FIDE W D L Tot D. Junior X SMP 8x1600 2847 2847 1 4 1 6 D. Fritz 8 SMP 8x900 2807 2807 2 4 2 8 C. Tiger 14 P3 866 2788 2497 8 3 0 11 CM 8K P3 700 2750 2350 2 0 0 2 Hiarcs X AMD 2400 2729 2729 0 4 0 4 D. Junior 6 SMP 8x700 2702 2702 2 5 2 9 Reb-Cen AMD 1900 2697 2697 2 0 2 4 "So if I had to bet money on which engine would most likley defeat humans, my money is on Rebel." I will take that bet!!! > >Stephen
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