Author: martin fierz
Date: 01:14:13 04/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2004 at 17:23:49, Stephen Ham wrote: >On April 16, 2004 at 16:15:03, Mark Young wrote: > >>On April 16, 2004 at 16:05:45, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On April 16, 2004 at 15:09:01, Stephen Ham wrote: >>> >>>>On April 16, 2004 at 14:05:26, Mark Young wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 10:54:12, Stephen Ham wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 09:00:36, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>First it was Deep Fritz against Kramnik then Deep Junior versus Kasparov, >>>>>>>nothing but to boring draw matches. It is about time for us to see the strongest >>>>>>>chess program Shredder 8 accomplishing what Deep Blue did back in 1997 against >>>>>>>Kasparov. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>>Jorge, >>>>>> >>>>>>I think that you're forgetting that the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans. >>>>>>That's why Rebel probably has the best record against humans of any engine to >>>>>>date. I've read that Crafty scores well against us too. >>>>> >>>>>This maybe correct...but I don't think so. More data needed. >>>>> >>>>>I am not sure your claim is correct that Rebel has the best record to date of >>>>>any engine. I am sure Junior, Hiarcs, Chess Tiger, and the Fritz will argue this >>>>>point with you. >>>>> >>>>>I am not sure what you mean by the best record against humans. >>>>> >>>>>Chess Tiger 14, Hiarcs 8, Junior 6, Fritz 8 have all had 2700+ PR playing >>>>>against humans. >>>>> >>>>>Junior 8 and Deep Fritz 8 have a 2800+ PR playing humans. >>>>> >>>>>As far as I know Shredder 7.04 or Shredder 8. The top programs on the SSDF list >>>>>don't have any GM games played to data. So to make the statement that: >>>>> >>>>>"the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans." >>>>> >>>>>This statement has no basis in fact. This is pure speculation. >>>> >>>>Not at all, Mark. Again, Jorge was writing about matches against the best >>>>humans. Fritz and Junior and others have had their chances and the results were: >>>>draws. This was the point of Jorge's post. >>>> >>>>Instead, the engines you wrote about above gained their successes in tournament >>>>action. However, some of those engines failed in their match against Smirin. So >>>>in the context of matches, Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>>>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's. Since Rebel's victories >>>>were several years ago, then one presumes that the latest version should prove >>>>at least as strong against humans. >>> >>>This is completely wrong. >>>Anand won the "match" against Rebel with 1.5-0.5. >>> >>>Van Wely-Rebel ended 2-2 >> >>You are correct.... about the wely-rebel match. I am also sure he was talking >>about GM John van der Wiel vs Rebel match. But this makes Mr. Ham is wrong again >>in this statement. >> >>"Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's." >> > >Gentlemen, > >It seems that my memory did err slightly. It was indeed van der Weil and not van >Wely, that Rebel defeated. Nonetheless, here are the facts: > >Rebel defeated Yusupov >Rebel defeated Anand - by the way, Rebel played on a standard PC of 1998, no >special hardware >Rebel defeated van der Wiel, a GM having success defeating other engines >Rebel drew with van Wely. > >http://members.home.nl/matador/chess.htm those are not "facts", that's just ed schröder's PR :-) if you want to mix blitz games with long games, fine. of course ed did this to promote his program. if you have to make a living out of selling your program, it s understandable... but for a neutral observer it should be clear that rebel did not win a real match against yusupov or anand. cheers martin > >Since Fritz and Junior played with special multiple processors, with each >processor being faster than the single 1998-vintage PC that Rebel had when >defeating Anand, then I think that Rebel's success is all the more amazing. >Sure, some of the Anand match was played with short-time controls. But I suspect >that if Rebel had the chances that Fritz and Junior were given (special hardware >and special opening books, etc.) then I'd still put my money on Rebel. > >I respect that you disagree with me. So what? There's no need to make the >disagreement so personal. > >Stephen
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