Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 10:23:50 04/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 17, 2004 at 11:53:11, Mark Young wrote: >On April 17, 2004 at 04:14:13, martin fierz wrote: > >>On April 16, 2004 at 17:23:49, Stephen Ham wrote: >> >>>On April 16, 2004 at 16:15:03, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On April 16, 2004 at 16:05:45, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 15:09:01, Stephen Ham wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 14:05:26, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 10:54:12, Stephen Ham wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 16, 2004 at 09:00:36, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>First it was Deep Fritz against Kramnik then Deep Junior versus Kasparov, >>>>>>>>>nothing but to boring draw matches. It is about time for us to see the strongest >>>>>>>>>chess program Shredder 8 accomplishing what Deep Blue did back in 1997 against >>>>>>>>>Kasparov. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Jorge >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jorge, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I think that you're forgetting that the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans. >>>>>>>>That's why Rebel probably has the best record against humans of any engine to >>>>>>>>date. I've read that Crafty scores well against us too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This maybe correct...but I don't think so. More data needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I am not sure your claim is correct that Rebel has the best record to date of >>>>>>>any engine. I am sure Junior, Hiarcs, Chess Tiger, and the Fritz will argue this >>>>>>>point with you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I am not sure what you mean by the best record against humans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Chess Tiger 14, Hiarcs 8, Junior 6, Fritz 8 have all had 2700+ PR playing >>>>>>>against humans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Junior 8 and Deep Fritz 8 have a 2800+ PR playing humans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>As far as I know Shredder 7.04 or Shredder 8. The top programs on the SSDF list >>>>>>>don't have any GM games played to data. So to make the statement that: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This statement has no basis in fact. This is pure speculation. >>>>>> >>>>>>Not at all, Mark. Again, Jorge was writing about matches against the best >>>>>>humans. Fritz and Junior and others have had their chances and the results were: >>>>>>draws. This was the point of Jorge's post. >>>>>> >>>>>>Instead, the engines you wrote about above gained their successes in tournament >>>>>>action. However, some of those engines failed in their match against Smirin. So >>>>>>in the context of matches, Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>>>>>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's. Since Rebel's victories >>>>>>were several years ago, then one presumes that the latest version should prove >>>>>>at least as strong against humans. >>>>> >>>>>This is completely wrong. >>>>>Anand won the "match" against Rebel with 1.5-0.5. >>>>> >>>>>Van Wely-Rebel ended 2-2 >>>> >>>>You are correct.... about the wely-rebel match. I am also sure he was talking >>>>about GM John van der Wiel vs Rebel match. But this makes Mr. Ham is wrong again >>>>in this statement. >>>> >>>>"Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>>>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's." >>>> >>> >>>Gentlemen, >>> >>>It seems that my memory did err slightly. It was indeed van der Weil and not van >>>Wely, that Rebel defeated. Nonetheless, here are the facts: >>> >>>Rebel defeated Yusupov >>>Rebel defeated Anand - by the way, Rebel played on a standard PC of 1998, no >>>special hardware >>>Rebel defeated van der Wiel, a GM having success defeating other engines >>>Rebel drew with van Wely. >>> >>>http://members.home.nl/matador/chess.htm >> >> >>those are not "facts", that's just ed schröder's PR :-) >>if you want to mix blitz games with long games, fine. of course ed did this to >>promote his program. if you have to make a living out of selling your program, >>it s understandable... but for a neutral observer it should be clear that rebel >>did not win a real match against yusupov or anand. > >Here are Rebel's results for the long time control games with GM Yusupov, and GM >Anand. It shows you are correct that Rebel did not win a "real match against >yusupov or anand" > >Rebel Vs GM Yusupov. Rebel lost 2-1 at Game 30. The longest time control games >played in this match. > >Rebel Vs GM Anand. Rebel lost again 1 1/2 to 1/2 at 40 moves in 2 hours. > >Not what I would call the best record to date of any computer program! > >It seems Mr. Ham fell for Ed's PR machine.:) What..............................? Hey, show a bit more respect for an oldtimer, will you? :) Hey (2), Rebel-Yusupov (1997), hardware P2-266 Mhz (ha ha ha) Hey (3), Rebel-Anand (1998), hardware AMD-450 Mhz (ha ha ha) Hey (4), Anand in 1998 was the world's strongest blitz-player. Hey (5), On all 4 matches it was agreed that the winner of the match was the one with the most points, regardless the time control. Hey (6), it made little sense those days to play on 40/2h against a GM, the hardware was much to slow. Hey (7), Rebel's overall performance at the AEGON tournaments of the 80's and 90's was best of all. Hey (8), Rebel was the best computer in the Premiere Israel League (5½/8) (1999-2000) Hey (9), Rebel was best computer in DEBRECEN-2000 (8½/11), 1½ points more than the second rated chess program. Now Mark, come up with the list of your favorite program :) Ed Ministry of Truth
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.