Author: Mark Young
Date: 15:06:43 04/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 17, 2004 at 15:21:37, Pallav Nawani wrote: >>>>>>>>>>First it was Deep Fritz against Kramnik then Deep Junior versus Kasparov, >>>>>>>>>>nothing but to boring draw matches. It is about time for us to see the strongest >>>>>>>>>>chess program Shredder 8 accomplishing what Deep Blue did back in 1997 against >>>>>>>>>>Kasparov. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jorge >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Jorge, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I think that you're forgetting that the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans. >>>>>>>>>That's why Rebel probably has the best record against humans of any engine to >>>>>>>>>date. I've read that Crafty scores well against us too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This maybe correct...but I don't think so. More data needed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I am not sure your claim is correct that Rebel has the best record to date of >>>>>>>>any engine. I am sure Junior, Hiarcs, Chess Tiger, and the Fritz will argue this >>>>>>>>point with you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I am not sure what you mean by the best record against humans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Chess Tiger 14, Hiarcs 8, Junior 6, Fritz 8 have all had 2700+ PR playing >>>>>>>>against humans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Junior 8 and Deep Fritz 8 have a 2800+ PR playing humans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>As far as I know Shredder 7.04 or Shredder 8. The top programs on the SSDF list >>>>>>>>don't have any GM games played to data. So to make the statement that: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"the strongest engine in engine versus engine >>>>>>>>contests (Shredder 8) isn't, as a consequence, the strongest versus humans." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This statement has no basis in fact. This is pure speculation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Not at all, Mark. Again, Jorge was writing about matches against the best >>>>>>>humans. Fritz and Junior and others have had their chances and the results were: >>>>>>>draws. This was the point of Jorge's post. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Instead, the engines you wrote about above gained their successes in tournament >>>>>>>action. However, some of those engines failed in their match against Smirin. So >>>>>>>in the context of matches, Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>>>>>>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's. Since Rebel's victories >>>>>>>were several years ago, then one presumes that the latest version should prove >>>>>>>at least as strong against humans. >>>>>> >>>>>>This is completely wrong. >>>>>>Anand won the "match" against Rebel with 1.5-0.5. >>>>>> >>>>>>Van Wely-Rebel ended 2-2 >>>>> >>>>>You are correct.... about the wely-rebel match. I am also sure he was talking >>>>>about GM John van der Wiel vs Rebel match. But this makes Mr. Ham is wrong again >>>>>in this statement. >>>>> >>>>>"Rebel won all of its matches I believe, including >>>>>those versus Anand and van Wely and other strong GM's." >>>>> >>>> >>>>Gentlemen, >>>> >>>>It seems that my memory did err slightly. It was indeed van der Weil and not van >>>>Wely, that Rebel defeated. Nonetheless, here are the facts: >>>> >>>>Rebel defeated Yusupov >>>>Rebel defeated Anand - by the way, Rebel played on a standard PC of 1998, no >>>>special hardware >>>>Rebel defeated van der Wiel, a GM having success defeating other engines >>>>Rebel drew with van Wely. >>>> >>>>http://members.home.nl/matador/chess.htm >>> >>> >>>those are not "facts", that's just ed schröder's PR :-) >>>if you want to mix blitz games with long games, fine. of course ed did this to >>>promote his program. if you have to make a living out of selling your program, >>>it s understandable... but for a neutral observer it should be clear that rebel >>>did not win a real match against yusupov or anand. >> >>Here are Rebel's results for the long time control games with GM Yusupov, and GM >>Anand. It shows you are correct that Rebel did not win a "real match against >>yusupov or anand" >> >>Rebel Vs GM Yusupov. Rebel lost 2-1 at Game 30. The longest time control games >>played in this match. >> >>Rebel Vs GM Anand. Rebel lost again 1 1/2 to 1/2 at 40 moves in 2 hours. >> >>Not what I would call the best record to date of any computer program! >> >>It seems Mr. Ham fell for Ed's PR machine.:) >> >> >> >Yes, and I would add that Anand is much stronger player today than he used to be >in 1998. Today, he is probably the strongest GM in the world. In 1998, he >wasn't! "Anand is much stronger player today than he used to be in 1998." Your statement of fact did not sound right to me. So I checked. GM Anand was 2770 in 1998. In Jan 04 GM Anand was 2766 in Apr 04 he was 2774. Not what I would call "much stronger today then he used to be in 1998." And not even close to GM Kasparov's rating of 2831. No. Name t NAT oc02 ja03 ap03 ju03 oc03 ja04 ap04 Gms 1 Kasparov, Garry................. g RUS 2838 2847 2830 2830 2830 2831 2817 12 2 Anand, Viswanathan.............. g IND 2755 2753 2764 2774 2766 2766 2774 13
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