Author: Laurence Chen
Date: 09:52:00 12/14/98
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 1998 at 10:29:47, Thom Perry wrote:
>On December 14, 1998 at 04:43:57, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On December 14, 1998 at 04:07:12, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On December 14, 1998 at 00:12:19, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>I do not know if it is a good sacrifice.
>>>>I suggest a simple test for it.
>>>>can you beat chessmaster,fritz5,Junior5 with the sacrifice(You have the right to
>>>>take back moves)?
>>>>
>>>>If you cannot then I suspect that it is a wrong sacrifice.
>>>
>>>I think this has to do with what a "real sacrifice" is.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't use the term to describe a situation where a piece is sacrificed in
>>>return for massive compensation against the king, in the form of increased
>>>tactical complexity. I would tend to use it in a case where you're still
>>>playing chess after the sacrifice, a case where there aren't extremely specific
>>>threats that need to be made and defended against, a case where there are
>>>resources for either side, and where compensation tends to be long-range.
>>
>>If the sacrifice is right then you can prove it by a game against programs.
>>I did not say a short game.
>>If you cannot beat chess programs by the sacrifice even after many moves when
>>you have the right to take back moves then I suspect that the sacrifice is
>>wrong.
>>
>>Uri
>>>
>>>bruce
>
>
>If the sacrifice is the correct move and forces a winning position, it seems to
>me that this should be fairly easy for the good chess programs to demonstrate:
>just let the program play out the game after the sacrifice. I'm going to do
>just that with MCP8 tonight and with the learning enabled. Then I'll replay it
>several times until MCP8 can find no better alternative, regardless of which
>color tends to win.
Thank you Tom Perry for your initiative and voluteering to this enormous task.
Yes, I ran this position starting from move 18, and so far it has been
demonstrated that White does indeed have enough compensation for the material
sacrificed. It was a pity that both games ended in a draw, the game which Junior
had White showed that if Black defends poorly, White can gain the upper hand, I
believe that Junior played the endgame poorly and allowed Black to escape with a
draw, which is a pity, this is one of the areas which needs to be improved, the
endgame play of chess engines are poor sometimes. That is why endgame tablebases
are needed. In the game between Junior and Fritz, Junior was able to win with
White because Fritz did not put the best defense, and Junior drew with Black.
Enough said, I look forward to seeing the games with the MCP8.
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Junior 5.0"]
[Black "CM 6000"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bq1r2/pp2n1pQ/4pk2/2n2pN1/8/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "179"]
{10240kB, f5book.ctg=1136620 pos} 18. e4 18... Nd3 {20} 19. Rad1 {-0.21/11 84}
19... Ng6 {167} 20. exf5 {-0.09/12 0} 20... exf5 {32} 21. Qh5 {0.00/12 67}
21... Ngf4 {7} 22. Nh7+ {0.39/11 36} 22... Ke7 {6} 23. Rfe1+ {0.79/10 14} 23...
Be6 {6} 24. Qh4+ {0.96/11 44} 24... Ke8 {34} 25. Ng5 {1.63/12 68} 25... Rf6 {52
} 26. Rxd3 {1.68/12 129} 26... Nxd3 {6} 27. Nxe6 {2.39/11 57} 27... Rxe6 {5}
28. Rxe6+ {2.23/11 42} 28... Kf8 {7} 29. Qh7 {2.19/11 39} 29... Qg5 {58} 30.
Re3 {2.34/12 0} 30... Rd8 {24} 31. h4 {2.94/12 20} 31... Qh6 {6} 32. Qxf5+ {
3.13/11 13} 32... Qf6 {6} 33. Qe4 {3.04/12 44} 33... Qxf2+ {108} 34. Kh2 {
3.19/14 0} 34... Kg8 {22} 35. Rxd3 {3.19/11 0} 35... Rxd3 {22} 36. Qc4+ {
3.23/11 7} 36... Kf8 {14} 37. Qxd3 {3.22/10 0} 37... Qxh4+ {21} 38. Kg1 {
3.32/11 14} 38... Qb4 {16} 39. Qd8+ {3.31/11 75} 39... Kf7 {7} 40. Qd7+ {
3.38/10 27} 40... Kf8 {17} 41. Qc8+ {3.28/10 34} 41... Kf7 {14} 42. b3 {
3.30/11 31} 42... Qb6+ {37} 43. Kf1 {3.46/12 61} 43... Qf6+ {14} 44. Ke2 {
3.48/11 42} 44... Qe5+ {29} 45. Kf3 {3.35/11 35} 45... Qf6+ {6} 46. Ke4 {
3.28/11 29} 46... Qe7+ {34} 47. Kd3 {3.50/12 0} 47... Qd6+ {28} 48. Kc4 {
3.40/12 0} 48... Qf4+ {25} 49. Kb5 {3.38/11 2} 49... Qg5+ {25} 50. Qc5 {
3.44/11 3} 50... Qxg2 {22} 51. Qxa7 {3.42/10 13} 51... g5 {11} 52. Qc5 {
3.56/12 81} 52... Ke6 {5} 53. Kb6 {4.21/10 59} 53... g4 {42} 54. Qc8+ {
4.45/10 0} 54... Ke5 {17} 55. Qxb7 {4.45/9 12} 55... Qf2+ {8} 56. Kb5 {
5.18/9 43} 56... Qf1+ {31} 57. Ka5 {5.17/10 17} 57... Qf3 {21} 58. Qg7+ {
5.30/8 26} 58... Ke6 {21} 59. a4 {5.32/9 2} 59... g3 {56} 60. Nb5 {5.35/11 0}
60... Qa8+ {26} 61. Kb6 {5.50/11 0} 61... Qb8+ {13} 62. Kc6 {5.38/10 24} 62...
Kf5 {24} 63. b4 {5.36/9 0} 63... Qa8+ {67} 64. Kc5 {5.50/9 18} 64... Kf4 {5}
65. a5 {5.45/8 14} 65... g2 {10} 66. Nd4 {5.39/8 6} 66... Qc8+ {45} 67. Kd5 {
4.75/11 0} 67... Qd8+ {19} 68. Kc4 {4.86/10 6} 68... Qc8+ {15} 69. Kb3 {
4.71/10 7} 69... Qg4 {18} 70. Qc7+ {3.97/10 40} 70... Ke4 {15} 71. Qc2+ {
4.01/9 2} 71... Ke3 {14} 72. Nf5+ {4.00/10 7} 72... Kf4 {6} 73. Qf2+ {3.67/9 8}
73... Ke5 {4} 74. Ne3 {4.07/9 12} 74... Qg8+ {17} 75. Nc4+ {5.19/10 15} 75...
Ke6 {5} 76. Qg1 {5.39/10 16} 76... Kd7 {29} 77. a6 {5.80/10 22} 77... Qd5 {23}
78. a7 {5.80/11 0} 78... Ke6 {36} 79. Kc3 {6.17/11 73} 79... Qf3+ {21} 80. Ne3
{5.98/11 74} 80... Qc6+ {6} 81. Kb3 {7.27/10 9} 81... Qe4 {12} 82. Ka4 {
5.69/10 16} 82... Qb7 {43} 83. Nxg2 {7.06/12 0} 83... Qa6+ {19} 84. Kb3 {
7.17/3 0} 84... Qd3+ {8} 85. Kb2 {5.24/11 4} 85... Qd2+ {5} 86. Kb1 {4.60/11 5}
86... Qxb4+ {25} 87. Ka2 {5.39/11 14} 87... Qa4+ {13} 88. Kb2 {5.43/11 0} 88...
Qb4+ {20} 89. Kc2 {5.39/11 0} 89... Qa4+ {18} 90. Kd3 {3.00/11 23} 90... Qb5+ {
19} 91. Ke4 {3.13/10 4} 91... Qf5+ {21} 92. Ke3 {0.79/12 0} 92... Qc5+ {10} 93.
Ke2 {0.74/10 0} 93... Qxg1 {16} 94. a8=Q {0.82/11 0} 94... Qd4 {15} 95. Qe8+ {
0.91/8 16} 95... Kd6 {5} 96. Qd8+ {0.87/8 9} 96... Kc5 {4} 97. Qc7+ {0.96/9 27}
97... Kb5 {2} 98. Ne3 {0.84/9 8} 98... Qb2+ {17} 99. Nc2 {0.85/10 21} 99... Qf6
{5} 100. Qb7+ {0.91/8 4} 100... Kc5 {25} 101. Qb4+ {0.98/9 26} 101... Kc6 {4}
102. Ne3 {0.85/8 8} 102... Qe5 {31} 103. Qc4+ {0.97/10 0} 103... Kd7 {11} 104.
Qa4+ {0.89/8 6} 104... Ke7 {8} 105. Qh4+ {0.88/9 36} 105... Ke6 {15} 106. Qh3+
{1.02/9 22} 106... Kd6 {16} 107. Kd3 {0.99/9 18} 1/2-1/2
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CM 6000"]
[Black "Junior 5.0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bq1r2/pp2n1pQ/4pk2/2n2pN1/8/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "24"]
{10240kB, f5book.ctg=1136620 pos 10240kB, f5book.ctg=1136620 pos} 18. e4 18...
Nd3 {-0.68/11 164} 19. Rad1 {43} 19... Ng6 {-0.12/11 54} 20. h4 {21} 20... Nge5
{-0.21/13 381} 21. f4 {8} 21... Qd4+ {0.01/11 41} 22. Kh1 {5} 22... Ng4 {
0.00/11 25} 23. e5+ {7} 23... Ke7 {-0.10/11 21} 24. Qxg7+ {6} 24... Ke8 {
0.00/11 21} 25. Ne2 {23} 25... Ndf2+ {0.00/11 42} 26. Kg1 {17} 26... Nh3+ {
0.00/11 6} 27. Kh1 {5} 27... Nhf2+ {0.00/11 6} 28. Kg1 {5} 28... Nh3+ {
0.00/11 42} 29. Kh1 {6} 29... Nhf2+ {0.00/11 9} 1/2-1/2
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Fritz 5.16"]
[Black "Junior 5.0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bq1r2/pp2n1pQ/4pk2/2n2pN1/8/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "16"]
{10240kB, f5book.ctg=1136620 pos} 18. e4 18... Nd3 {0} 19. Rad1 Ng6 20. exf5
exf5 21. Qh5 Rh8 22. Nh7+ Kf7 23. Ng5+ Kf6 24. Nh7+ Kf7 25. Ng5+ Kf6 1/2-1/2
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Junior 5.0"]
[Black "Fritz 5.16"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1bq1r2/pp2n1pQ/4pk2/2n2pN1/8/2N1P3/PP3PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "107"]
{10240kB, f5book.ctg=1136620 pos} 18. e4 18... e5 19. Rad1 Qb6 20. Qh4 Be6 21.
b4 Na6 22. Nf3+ Kf7 23. Nxe5+ Ke8 24. b5 Nc5 25. exf5 Rxf5 26. Qh8+ Rf8 27.
Qh5+ g6 28. Nxg6 Nxg6 29. Qxg6+ Rf7 30. Rfe1 Kf8 31. Qh6+ Kg8 32. Re5 Rg7 33.
Rg5 Rxg5 34. Qxg5+ Kf7 35. Qh5+ Kg7 36. Nd5 Qd8 37. Qe5+ Kf7 38. Qf4+ Kg7 39.
Qd4+ Kf7 40. Qe5 Rc8 41. Qf4+ Kg7 42. Qg3+ Kh7 43. Qe5 Qf8 44. Rd4 Qh6 45. Rc4
Rd8 46. Qc7+ Rd7 47. Qxc5 Bxd5 48. Rd4 Qg5 49. g3 Qf5 50. Rh4+ Kg6 51. Qc1 Be4
52. f3 Qxb5 53. Rxe4 Qb6+ 54. Kg2 Rc7 55. Rg4+ Kh7 56. Rh4+ Kg8 57. Qg5+ Rg7
58. Qh5 Qb2+ 59. Kh3 Rf7 60. Rg4+ Qg7 61. Rxg7+ Rxg7 62. Qe8+ Kh7 63. f4 Kh6
64. f5 Kh7 65. f6 Rc7 66. f7 Rxf7 67. Qxf7+ Kh8 68. Qxb7 Kg8 69. Qa8+ Kg7 70.
Qxa7+ Kf6 71. Qd4+ 1-0
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