Author: George Tsavdaris
Date: 06:53:45 04/25/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 25, 2004 at 09:49:41, George Tsavdaris wrote: >On April 25, 2004 at 09:07:31, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On April 25, 2004 at 09:03:38, Helmut Conrady wrote: >> >>>On April 25, 2004 at 07:56:15, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On April 25, 2004 at 07:55:09, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 25, 2004 at 06:53:39, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 25, 2004 at 06:47:21, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>No Jorge, see here: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Ruffian 2.1.0 - Shredder, real position: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>[D]6Q1/8/p7/7p/8/5q2/5k2/2K5 w - - 0 1 >>>>>> >>>>>>Is this won with 6-Pieces? I believe no >>>>>>then the pawn on a6 is not possible in the endgame >>>>>> >>>>>>(Ruffian 2.1.0 has not 6 pieces, but Shredder have it). >>>>>> >>>>>>Position without pawn a5: >>>>>> >>>>>>[D]6Q1/8/8/7p/8/5q2/5k2/2K5 w - - 0 63 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Draw: >>>>>> >>>>>>1. = (0.00): 63.Dd8 >>>>>>2. -+ (-#76): 63.Da2+ >>>>>> >>>>>>But Ruffian (without 6-Pieces) plays Qa2+? and lost. :( >>>>>> >>>>>>Here won also not the engine, it won the better EGTB, or? :) >>>>> >>>>>But the engine has to reach that position before it can use the EGTB, therefore, >>>>>the game was won after reaching that position with or without 6-Pieces EGTB. >>>>> >>>>>Jorge >>>> >>>>Correct! >>>> >>>>Sandro >>> >>>Eduard is right IMO. In a tablebase-based search the tablebases can help to >>>reach a won position, which the engine may be couldn`t find alone. >>> >>>I would argue in an other way: every programmar is free to use as much >>>tablebases as he wants ... >>> >>> >>>Helmut >> >>I agree with Eduard, but in this specific position the program is able to see >>the win also without 6 EGTB. > > I don't find it unfair if a program can play +420 ELO points better with >tablebases. The 6-piece tablebases is here and it's available for anyone to use >them in his program. > If someone don't allow his program to use for example an opening book, then >it's not reasonable to say that the game with another program which used a book >is unfair. Well saying that with this way seems i claim that someone is saying that the match was unfair. This is not my puprose. I only say that i see only the result. Shredder won Ruffian. Shredder played with all his power the same that Ruffian did. Shredder won. We should not say if Ruffian supported 6-piece, if, if... > >>I know it because I do not have them and I saw the program evaluation on one of >>my computers. >>
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